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IDProjectCategoryView StatusDate SubmittedLast Update
0003133Dwarf FortressCreaturespublic2010-08-31 09:102015-03-08 12:02
ReporterKhift 
Assigned To 
PrioritynormalSeverityminorReproducibilitysometimes
StatusnewResolutionopen 
PlatformPCOSWindows VistaOS Version
Product Version0.31.12 
Target VersionFixed in Version 
Summary0003133: Dust attacks cause instant KO (old code from cave-ins?)
DescriptionSome variations of the deadly dust cloud attack given to various FBs, titans and demons act as unstoppable area of effect one-hit-KO attacks. Any creature caught in one of these clouds of deadly dust has an extremely high chance to simply die as a result of exposure -- including the creature that emits the dust. A single emission of dust can kill dozens of dwarves near the beast with absolutely nothing that could be done to counter it. No amount of skill, training, or raw toughness can mitigate it; if a creature is exposed to one of the bugged dust clouds then it almost certainly dies and there is nothing that can be done about it.
Steps To ReproduceI admittedly am not familiar with the arena mode, but if you are able to spawn randomly generated creatures in it it would be a great place to test this. Create a group of two dozen dwarves in full adamantine gear (bonus points for adamantine clothing below it, too), full Legendary+5 on all combat skills and pit these super-dwarves against FBs until you encounter one with deadly dust and note the dust's effects. Frequently, although not always, the beast's dust cloud will result in the mass killing of the dwarves fighting it, usually some time after the fight is over and the beast is decapitated (it often takes a while for the toughened military dwarves to finally suffocate).

Another method to replicate this bug is to pit FBs with deadly dust against kittens. The FB will make short work of the kitten, but you will be able to clearly see that the dust cloud it emits is so dangerous it frequently kills the beast itself.

If FBs cannot be generated in the arena testing is going to be more difficult; you would need to come across the dust beast by yourself in an actual fortress and repeat the above tests. It'd be much harder, to say the least.
Additional InformationI would like to state again that while many iterations of deadly dust are this lethal not all are. I've seen some that 'merely' stun the creatures hit by it for extended periods of time. This, in my mind, is the correct balance for this attack -- if all it was was an AoE incapacitate I would still rank it as the most deadly special attack a randomly generated creature can have but it would no longer be so unfair and imbalanced that the only sane solution is to wall the creature off and chuck kittens at it until it chokes to death on it's own ridiculous dust. While I appreciate the imagery of killing something with kittens, it isn't balanced gameplay and it certainly isn't fun to lose a dozen or more skilled military dwarves to a single creature, especially when the combat log is exactly two lines long:

Duster, Forgotten Beast releases a cloud of deadly dust!
The Axe Lord strikes Duster in the head with his *Adamantine Battle Axe* and the severed part sails off in an arc!

Mass incapacitation is dangerous enough, trust me. Especially if FBs ever receive any rebalancing with regards to the strength of their skin and natural weapons. A beast releasing a cloud of dust and then ripping the incapacitated dwarves to shreds afterwards is fair and fun, but having the dust be an area of effect one hit kill regardless of the actual combat is not.
TagsNo tags attached.
Attached Files

- Relationships
related to 0000524resolvedToady One Liquid glob material breath attacks come out solid 
related to 0004834new Forgotten Beast damages self with dust attack. 
related to 0002166resolvedFootkerchief Cave-in dust causes direct injury to dwarves 
related to 0001775resolvedFootkerchief Miners fail to fall unconscious after cave-in until current job is ended. 

-  Notes
(0012285)
Logical2u (manager)
2010-08-31 16:06

 So you think this is a bug because it is too deadly?
(0012288)
Khift (reporter)
2010-08-31 18:29

 Many of the deadly dust attacks auto-kill every dwarf they touch and frequently kills the creature with the attack too. You could splice hairs and call it not a bug and just unintended behavior, but I'm certain that it should not be so lethal it kills it's own user half the time.
(0012389)
Quietust (reporter)
2010-09-03 11:57

 The problem seems to be that "dust" attacks are using the exact same mechanics as cave-ins, meaning a cloud of dust can violently throw creatures around, resulting in potentially lethal damage when they slam into an obstacle.
(0014396)
Footkerchief (manager)
2010-12-03 11:39

 This was a known issue during the development of 0.31.01 that apparently never got fixed: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=30026.msg419532;topicseen#msg419532 [^]

Solid breath can take the form of a forward moving dust puff that accidentally knocks people out due to some cave-in code. When I fix that, KOs make or may not be a parameter.
(0014408)
tatterdemalian (reporter)
2010-12-04 10:22

 I'd prefer the "deadly dust" simply be renamed "explosive nature." Think about it, a Forgotten Beast that runs up to a legion of dwarves and explodes. The explosion kills the beast, and sends all the dwarves flying, using the existing cave-in physics. "Trailing dust" could be "explosive trail," and so on. Shrapnel or chemicals in the explosions cause the related syndromes.
(0017300)
Orkel2 (reporter)
2011-04-11 12:42

 Still in .25, just reminding. Kinda gamebreaking when you get one of these on your map.
(0019207)
flamoot (reporter)
2011-12-20 09:42

 Forgotten Beast Deady Dust is -way- overpowered, I just made note of this in my last game log. I save-scummed because of it, twice!

Excerpt

My squads will need reinforcing after this. It's crippled so many

Wounds of a war dog:

His left front paw is broken. His left front leg is rotten. His mouth is
bruised. His left front paw is bruised. His fourth left rear toe is rotten.
His third left rear toe is rotten. His second left rear toe is rotten. His
first left rear toe is rotten. ... His lower body is rotten. His upper body
is rotten.

Great. I think that dust is giving people rot. It's hit so many with it. I'm
turning off dwarves gather bodies...

Only two legendary miners remain. There were six!

WHERE ARE MY SQUADS

Answer: entirely hospitalized or unconscious. In record time

Both times
(0032348)
jwoodward48df (reporter)
2015-03-08 12:02

 @tatterdemalian: Forgotten beasts do not explode, and they are not intended to. That would either be a horrible quick fix or a suggestion, both of which would not be the intended fix.

- Issue History
Date Modified Username Field Change
2010-08-31 09:10 Khift New Issue
2010-08-31 16:06 Logical2u Note Added: 0012285
2010-08-31 18:29 Khift Note Added: 0012288
2010-09-03 11:57 Quietust Note Added: 0012389
2010-12-03 10:50 Footkerchief Summary Deadly Dust can be far, far too deadly. (Titans / FBs / Demons) => Dust attacks cause instant KO (old code from cave-ins?)
2010-12-03 11:39 Footkerchief Note Added: 0014396
2010-12-03 11:40 Footkerchief Relationship added related to 0000524
2010-12-04 10:22 tatterdemalian Note Added: 0014408
2011-04-11 12:42 Orkel2 Note Added: 0017300
2011-12-20 08:47 Footkerchief Issue Monitored: Toady One
2011-12-20 09:42 flamoot Note Added: 0019207
2011-12-22 10:01 Footkerchief Relationship added related to 0004834
2012-02-22 10:26 Footkerchief Relationship added has duplicate 0002166
2014-01-22 12:20 Footkerchief Relationship added related to 0001775
2014-07-11 11:19 Footkerchief Relationship replaced related to 0002166
2015-03-08 12:02 jwoodward48df Note Added: 0032348

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