Dwarf Fortress Bug Tracker - Dwarf Fortress
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IDProjectCategoryView StatusDate SubmittedLast Update
0001553Dwarf FortressDwarf Mode -- Tradepublic2010-04-26 11:522014-01-26 08:42
ReporterDekon 
Assigned ToFootkerchief 
PrioritynormalSeverityminorReproducibilityalways
StatusresolvedResolutionno change required 
PlatformOSOS Version
Product Version0.31.01 
Target VersionFixed in Version 
Summary0001553: Aluminum not available to all dwarven civs
DescriptionIt could be a sheer lack of luck in mountainhomes placement, but in the several forts on the new version I've had thus far, not a single dwarven caravan stocks aluminum anymore. It seems to have ceased existence altogether. I'm aware it's found in igneous extrusive rock layers, but apparently it's too rare for dwarves to have anymore.
Steps To ReproducePlay a dwarf fort. Get a caravan. No aluminum on the trade select screen.
Additional Information
TagsNo tags attached.
Relationships
related to 0001127new  Worldgen without caverns does not allow embark with seeds/alcohol 
Attached Files
Issue History
Date ModifiedUsernameFieldChange
2010-04-26 11:52DekonNew Issue
2010-04-26 12:49Rafal99Note Added: 0005161
2010-04-26 13:02FootkerchiefNote Added: 0005165
2010-04-26 13:02FootkerchiefIssue Monitored: Footkerchief
2010-04-26 13:23DekonNote Added: 0005169
2010-04-26 14:05smjjamesNote Added: 0005178
2010-04-26 14:10king doomNote Added: 0005180
2010-04-26 14:11king doomNote Edited: 0005180bug_revision_view_page.php?bugnote_id=0005180#r1830
2010-04-26 15:04FootkerchiefNote Added: 0005189
2010-04-26 20:11DekonNote Added: 0005246
2010-04-26 20:31DekonNote Added: 0005256
2010-04-26 20:49FootkerchiefNote Added: 0005266
2010-04-26 20:50FootkerchiefNote Edited: 0005266bug_revision_view_page.php?bugnote_id=0005266#r1861
2010-04-27 06:31DekonNote Added: 0005333
2010-04-27 14:51smjjamesNote Added: 0005408
2010-04-27 15:56ShadowicsNote Added: 0005422
2010-04-27 17:15FootkerchiefSummaryAluminum in Dwarf Trade Caravans => Aluminum not available to all dwarven civs
2010-04-27 17:15FootkerchiefTag Attached: Intentional?
2010-04-27 17:24DekonNote Added: 0005438
2010-04-27 20:15ShadowicsNote Edited: 0005422bug_revision_view_page.php?bugnote_id=0005422#r1972
2010-07-12 12:03FootkerchiefTag RenamedIntentional? => Intentional/Expected?
2010-08-11 09:30DekonNote Added: 0011718
2010-12-26 14:34DwarfuTag Detached: Intentional/Expected?
2010-12-26 14:37DwarfuNote Added: 0014707
2010-12-26 14:37DwarfuStatusnew => resolved
2010-12-26 14:37DwarfuResolutionopen => no change required
2010-12-26 14:37DwarfuAssigned To => Dwarfu
2011-07-09 04:28DekonNote Added: 0018175
2011-07-09 04:28DekonStatusresolved => needs feedback
2011-07-09 04:28DekonResolutionno change required => reopened
2011-07-09 10:26BeeskeeNote Added: 0018180
2011-07-09 10:26BeeskeeNote Edited: 0018180bug_revision_view_page.php?bugnote_id=0018180#r6790
2011-07-09 13:44DwarfuNote Added: 0018183
2011-07-28 10:21FootkerchiefAssigned ToDwarfu =>
2011-07-28 10:21FootkerchiefStatusneeds feedback => new
2011-07-28 19:11kwielandNote Added: 0018361
2011-09-21 00:35ValdraxNote Added: 0018748
2012-02-23 19:00FootkerchiefRelationship addedrelated to 0001127
2014-01-26 08:42FootkerchiefNote Added: 0024362
2014-01-26 08:42FootkerchiefStatusnew => resolved
2014-01-26 08:42FootkerchiefResolutionreopened => no change required
2014-01-26 08:42FootkerchiefAssigned To => Footkerchief

Notes
(0005161)
Rafal99   
2010-04-26 12:49   
I was ordering in liason screen and buying native aluminum without problems, so not reproducible here.
(0005165)
Footkerchief   
2010-04-26 13:02   
Rafal99: can you order aluminum the metal from the liaison?

Dekon: have you tried looking for native aluminum as opposed to aluminum?
(0005169)
Dekon   
2010-04-26 13:23   
I think I once looked for native, and couldn't find it.

I'll check again on the next caravan, since this is a new fort since then.

But yeah, aluminum metal bars are definitely, without a doubt, gone.
(0005178)
smjjames   
2010-04-26 14:05   
Someone posted that a dwarf made an aluminum crutch artifact, so aluminum exists somewhere.

Could vary widely by the worldgen, the site you choose, and what civ you choose.
(0005180)
king doom   
2010-04-26 14:10   
(edited on: 2010-04-26 14:11)
The lack is probably a deliberate choice on Toadys part, given how annoying it is to refine the stuff, despite the fact it makes up about 10% of the entire planets surface. I'll laugh if you can get the ability to refine it yourself at some point, I know you can get it from bauxite among other stones.
(0005189)
Footkerchief   
2010-04-26 15:04   
king doom: DF doesn't let you smelt aluminum from bauxite. The only source is native aluminum, and you ARE supposed to be able to get aluminum from it, as indicated from its METAL_ORE tag and Toady's comments here: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=1788.msg28133#msg28133 [^]
(0005246)
Dekon   
2010-04-26 20:11   
Well, I would like to help you, Footkerchief, but I had to go -back- a season since my dwarven caravan showed up, dropped -all- their crap off at the depot, and promptly left. The Liaison then skipped to the very end of the conversation where he told me what prices he'd give me next year.

So I've gone back a season to see if my brain just hemorraged somewhere throughout this process, though I'm quite sure I didn't take the time to buy all their useless crap because, unlike some strange folk I hear about on the forums, I take little pride in 'buying out' a caravan.

Never even saw them enter the freaking depot to begin with.
(0005256)
Dekon   
2010-04-26 20:31   
Nope. No Aluminum ore.
(0005266)
Footkerchief   
2010-04-26 20:49   
(edited on: 2010-04-26 20:50)
Thanks for checking. It's possible it does boil down to bad luck, although it could have any number of causes -- bad placement of minerals (0000804), bad calculation of civ access to minerals, who knows.

Have you been playing in very young worlds? I'm guessing territory size might affect the civ's mineral availability.
(0005333)
Dekon   
2010-04-27 06:31   
Nope. All the standard of 1050. I've played..hrm..3-5 worlds so far, forgotten exactly. All -my- starting spots have contained no igneous extrusive. According to the 40D info on Aluminum, Igneous extrusive is the only place where Aluminum is found - but it seems to be a lot rarer, now.

At least in 40D, though, dwarves would always carry the same set of metals, regardless of what they would have in ores/stone. There was simply a standard set of metals.
(0005408)
smjjames   
2010-04-27 14:51   
I just want to report that in checking embark supplies for something totally unrelated to this, I looked at the metal bars and the civ that I have selected does have aluminum bars as well as native aluminum ore.

Its also a world that I stopped at 300 years, so having a young world might not affect it unless you stop it within the first 100 years, before the civs have expanded much.
(0005422)
Shadowics   
2010-04-27 15:56   
(edited on: 2010-04-27 20:15)
I have definitely gotten aluminum from my dwarf traders, specifically 1 Native Aluminum Block, and 1 Aluminum Bar. I don't recall seeing any native aluminum ore, but I haven't been requesting it either.

Edit: Yes, I can request Aluminum Bars and Native Aluminum ore from the dwarven traders.
(0005438)
Dekon   
2010-04-27 17:24   
I suppose it may just be me, then. It's odd, because they have -every- other form of metal bars. The problem is, aluminum -only- occurs in igneous extrusive, which isn't that terribly common. It's easy for the mountainhomes to not get placed near it.

The other problem is that igneous extrusive -doesn't- contain many other metals. Which is why I never start on it myself. The 'white' embark layers are what contain all that beautiful iron which makes such wonderful steel.
(0011718)
Dekon   
2010-08-11 09:30   
Just to update this - I did recently get aluminum from a caravan on one map, but only one.

It just seems to be very rare.
(0014707)
Dwarfu   
2010-12-26 14:37   
Thanks for the update, Dekon.

Since you did get aluminum ore and bars and someone else verified blocks, I'll resolve this report. If you can find a civ that should have it but doesn't, please reopen this report and upload a save.
(0018175)
Dekon   
2011-07-09 04:28   
I discovered this isn't a matter of 'rarity'. It's a matter of placement, and placement in such a way that it -may- be a bug. I'm not sure if it's intentional.

After a large amount of testing, I've discovered that you will -always- have aluminum available if your starting location included mountains/hills. Even a single bit of mountain/hill is enough. Conversely, you will -never- have aluminum available if you start your fort out in land away from hills/mountains.

When I submitted this bug, I had been playing out away from mountains to take advantage of flat terrain and large numbers of trees. For various reasons, I recently decided to start playing some mountain forts - and every fort that contained at least one tile of hill/mountain terrain would allow for aluminum.
(0018180)
Beeskee   
2011-07-09 10:26   
I played 2 forts recently, one with low metal content in the world, and one with high metal content. In the low metal one, the dwarfs didn't have aluminium for trade. In the high metal one they did. (And I found some locally)

In the low metal one my civ had steel but no iron, but that's another issue. ;)
(0018183)
Dwarfu   
2011-07-09 13:44   
Reminder sent to: Dekon

Interesting.

For more detailed testing, please indicated if your CIV was in an area that should have aluminum (thereby making it available for trade). Also, for both your site and your civ's other sites, was the presence of aluminum because they were in igneous extrusive rock?
(0018361)
kwieland   
2011-07-28 19:11   
I've seen the same thing with colored diamonds. I would have thought that most civ's should have access to them, but sometimes you get a world in which the civ's don't.
(0018748)
Valdrax   
2011-09-21 00:35   
@Dekon. How far away from the mountains do you have to be?

I am working on a flat, oceanside fort 1/5 from the northern edge of a small map, where the closest mountain range is the Mountainhome's location, 1/5 from the southern edge of the map.

I have access to aluminum from trade, and IIRC when I popped the game over to Windows and tested DFReveal & DFProspector, I had some native aluminum a few levels above the magma sea in a basalt layer. My world does have a minimum volcanism of 30 and volcanism X/Y variability cranked to the max, though.

I think this bug, if it is a bug, probably should be downgraded from "always" status.
(0024362)
Footkerchief   
2014-01-26 08:42   
Appears to be intentional.