Dwarf Fortress Bug Tracker - Dwarf Fortress
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IDProjectCategoryView StatusDate SubmittedLast Update
0004034Dwarf FortressGeologypublic2011-02-20 09:122012-03-02 17:40
ReporterRoot Infinity 
Assigned ToToady One 
PrioritynormalSeveritymajorReproducibilityhave not tried
StatusresolvedResolutionfixed 
PlatformHP G60-120CAOSWindows VistaOS VersionHome Premium
Product Version0.31.19 
Target VersionFixed in Version0.31.20 
Summary0004034: Metal is scarce
DescriptionThis fort has no minerals, other than gems, even though the pre-embark screen says it has shallow and deep metals.

See http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=3822 [^] for the save and DFProspector output
Steps To Reproduce
Additional Information
TagsSave Included
Relationships
related to 0001111resolved Toady One Ore/gem frequency parameters don't work 
Attached Files
Issue History
Date ModifiedUsernameFieldChange
2011-02-20 09:12Root InfinityNew Issue
2011-02-21 08:33FootkerchiefNote Added: 0015360
2011-02-21 11:32ArtfunkelNote Added: 0015362
2011-02-21 11:52DwarfuNote Added: 0015364
2011-02-21 12:00Knight OtuNote Added: 0015365
2011-02-21 12:29DwarfuNote Added: 0015366
2011-02-21 12:31DwarfuTag Attached: Save Included
2011-02-21 12:31DwarfuTag Attached: Save Needs Testing
2011-02-21 18:19dravusNote Added: 0015380
2011-02-21 18:24dravusNote Edited: 0015380bug_revision_view_page.php?bugnote_id=0015380#r5818
2011-02-21 18:24dravusNote Edited: 0015380bug_revision_view_page.php?bugnote_id=0015380#r5819
2011-02-23 05:47afftorNote Added: 0015414
2011-02-23 05:51afftorNote Edited: 0015414bug_revision_view_page.php?bugnote_id=0015414#r5821
2011-02-23 05:52afftorIssue Monitored: afftor
2011-02-23 06:21AbuDhabiNote Added: 0015418
2011-02-23 07:16FootkerchiefSummaryNo minerals present on embark => Metal is scarce
2011-02-23 07:17FootkerchiefTag Attached: Fixed in 0.31.20?
2011-02-23 08:04afftorTag Attached: *CLT*
2011-02-23 08:05afftorTag Detached: *CLT*
2011-02-23 08:56KipiNote Added: 0015424
2011-02-23 12:48Khym ChanurIssue Monitored: Khym Chanur
2011-02-23 13:04KogutNote Added: 0015431
2011-02-23 13:05KogutNote Deleted: 0015431
2011-02-23 17:50RhenayaNote Added: 0015434
2011-02-24 10:12InfiltratorNote Added: 0015449
2011-02-24 10:24dravusNote Added: 0015453
2011-02-24 10:25dravusNote Edited: 0015453bug_revision_view_page.php?bugnote_id=0015453#r5827
2011-02-24 13:35SilophantNote Added: 0015473
2011-02-24 14:08dravusNote Added: 0015474
2011-03-05 10:16FootkerchiefRelationship addedrelated to 0001111
2011-03-06 08:00dree12Note Added: 0015802
2011-03-06 13:43DoctorZuberNote Added: 0015845
2011-03-06 13:46DoctorZuberNote Edited: 0015845bug_revision_view_page.php?bugnote_id=0015845#r5959
2011-03-06 13:47thvazNote Added: 0015847
2011-03-06 13:47DoctorZuberNote Edited: 0015845bug_revision_view_page.php?bugnote_id=0015845#r5960
2011-03-06 13:52DoctorZuberNote Added: 0015848
2011-03-06 13:56DoctorZuberNote Edited: 0015845bug_revision_view_page.php?bugnote_id=0015845#r5961
2011-03-06 14:05FootkerchiefStatusnew => resolved
2011-03-06 14:05FootkerchiefFixed in Version => 0.31.20
2011-03-06 14:05FootkerchiefResolutionopen => fixed
2011-03-06 14:05FootkerchiefAssigned To => Toady One
2011-03-06 14:57Khym ChanurIssue End Monitor: Khym Chanur
2011-03-17 09:53afftorIssue End Monitor: afftor
2011-10-29 05:45DwarfuTag Detached: Fixed in 0.31.20?
2012-03-02 17:40DwarfuTag Detached: Save Needs Testing

Notes
(0015360)
Footkerchief   
2011-02-21 08:33   
Does this mean that literally all of the rock on your map is gems?
(0015362)
Artfunkel   
2011-02-21 11:32   
No, it means that there are no mineral veins but lots of gems. I get this:

OPAL_PINFIRE : 257
HELIODOR : 316
OPAL_CRYSTAL : 323
CLEAR ZIRCON : 789
QUARTZ_ROSE : 816
OPAL_PFIRE : 923
MORION : 973
YELLOW ZIRCON : 1338
BROWN ZIRCON : 1577
SPINEL_PURPLE : 2018
CRYSTAL_ROCK : 2727
WOOD OPAL : 3290
SCHORL : 4464
PRASE : 4653
ALEXANDRITE : 4759
RAW_ADAMANTINE : 10335
TETRAHEDRITE : 12160
SLADE : 210244

Adamantine is unaffected, it would seem.
(0015364)
Dwarfu   
2011-02-21 11:52   
Tetrahedrite may cover both shallow and deep, or it is the shallow and adamantine is the deep one.
(0015365)
Knight Otu   
2011-02-21 12:00   
If adamantine were the deep one, shouldn't it show up on every tile profile? As I understand it, adamantine pillars should show up at least once in a given area (2x2?), and potentially more often.

In any case, the output linked in the original issue shows no metal ore of any kind apart from adamantine.
(0015366)
Dwarfu   
2011-02-21 12:29   
Yeah, the adamantine makes sense. I thought the readout Artfunkel posted was from the OP's save, which shows tetrahedrite, but I see now that the OP's readout is in the DFFD link.
(0015380)
dravus   
2011-02-21 18:19   
(edited on: 2011-02-21 18:24)
I just got this myself

used create world now and after finding a viable location to start I ran prospector and found this

CHERRY OPAL : 19
SCHORL : 82
YELLOW SPESSARTINE : 207
MOSS OPAL : 230
ONYX OPAL : 231
GREEN ZIRCON : 306
LAPIS LAZULI : 323
MILK OPAL : 337
INDIGO TOURMALINE : 368
EMERALD : 463
RHODOLITE : 764
HORNBLENDE : 824
SMOKY QUARTZ : 977
RED ZIRCON : 1093
PRASE OPAL : 1284
OPAL_REDFLASH : 1780
BLACK ZIRCON : 2390
WOOD OPAL : 2553
RAW_ADAMANTINE : 6492
BROWN ZIRCON : 30020
OPAL_HARLEQUIN : 35897
NATIVE_GOLD : 217340
SLADE : 239083

I then ran Reveal and confirmed for the most part what Prospector was telling me.....only it didn't report the waste stones like chert and such

there is something heavily wrong with the generation code
(0015414)
afftor   
2011-02-23 05:47   
(edited on: 2011-02-23 05:51)
Yes, it seems new map generator put veins extremely rare. I often discover layers made entirely from rock and haven't seen a single map where I could make at least bronze (steel is possible tho). Either this is a bug or new (unnamed?) feature.
(0015418)
AbuDhabi   
2011-02-23 06:21   
I think I have the same problem on my map. After drilling through to the magma sea, the only metals I've found are malachite and tetrahedrite (one vein each). In the previous versions, there were loads of ores in the caverns, and here there are none.
(0015424)
Kipi   
2011-02-23 08:56   
Not sure about this, but could it be that the texts "shadow metals" and "deep metals" refer to the whole layer of that specific biome in local area? I mean that the text doesn't seem to change when moving in same biome, so perhaps the game shows those text if somewhere in that specific biome there are ore veins? That the correct locations of those veins must be found by trial and error method.

Only Toady is able to confirm this, though it would explain why the text is shown when clearly there are no veins in the embark area.
(0015434)
Rhenaya   
2011-02-23 17:50   
it was intended as far i saw, as the devblog stated that metals are really scarce now, and even if you have metals on a site it could be its only the really small patchs of aluminium.

it should maybe state a little more than just "deep/shallow" metal as most forts are now hard to run without armor/weapon metals :/ and hard to plan anything at all
(0015449)
Infiltrator   
2011-02-24 10:12   
The fort I just started (so haven't been playing that long) on the embark screen said it had deep metals and shallow metals, as well as flux. So far all I've found is schist, gabbro, granite, diorite, a whole heap of gems and a small vein of tin and a small one of silver. I haven't been able to find any flux.

I've discovered a few caverns, but they all just have junk rocks like granite and diorite. No real metal or a single stone of flux to be found.
(0015453)
dravus   
2011-02-24 10:24   
(edited on: 2011-02-24 10:25)
I think it's safe to say that even if intentional......nobody really enjoys the change

should toady see this......he should revert the metal generation back to 31.18 standards
(0015473)
Silophant   
2011-02-24 13:35   
I don't think it's safe to say that at all. While I think metals are a bit too rare in this version, previous .31 versions had it much too common. Being able to make every piece of furniture in a fortress out of solid gold, on every single map? That was unenjoyable. We don't play DF because it's easy. It's supposed to be hard.
(0015474)
dravus   
2011-02-24 14:08   
I think that's too much of personal opinion

see that prospector output of mine......there was nothing on the map at all other than gold

and all of that gold was situated 2-5 z levels from HFS.....thanks to Reveal I found that out

and there was at least 50 z levels to reach it

there was nothing else on the map.......how do you think I'd of done anything?
(0015802)
dree12   
2011-03-06 08:00   
This bug report has nothing to do with how scarce metal is, it's the misleading "Shallow Metal"/"Deep Metal" message. Could we get a change in summary?
(0015845)
DoctorZuber   
2011-03-06 13:43   
(edited on: 2011-03-06 13:56)
TETRAHEDRITE : 12160 is metal. 100% copper / 20% silver in fact. So the title of this report is misleading.

Now... I do agree that I HATE HATE HATE the shallow metal(s)/deep metal(s) system. Here is what it seems to mean from my personal testing. I did all my testing on 2x2 embark areas.

"Metal" means ONE type of metal. This is roughly 4000 units of metal in a 2x2 embark with default settings.

"Metals" means TWO (or more?) types of metal. This is roughly 1300 units each of metal in a 2x2 embark with default settings. In my testing I never saw more than two types of metal.

Shallow and Deep metal appear to draw from different material lists. Shallow metal is much more likely to produce copper. Deep metal is most often Iron.

The obvious problem with this is you really have no clue what metal you're going to get. You could get iron, or you could get something truly worthless like lead.

Even if you carefully select the most choice sites of shallow metals/deep metals than you have at MOST four different types of metals. In most cases you'll have duplicates. The best I have personally seen was copper/gold/iron with access to flux. Although you are more likely to get something truly worthless like copper/copper/copper/gold.

The lack of variety in metals is truly aggravating. With this system a map that can produce bronze from local resources is even more rare than steel.
(0015847)
thvaz   
2011-03-06 13:47   
The fact is, in the real world one of the reasons for the rising of commerce through the mediterranean in the ancient age was the need for tin or copper to make bronze, as usually a site doesn't have both.
(0015848)
DoctorZuber   
2011-03-06 13:52   
That might be a valid argument if it was actually possible to trade for more than 4 bars of tin per YEAR. Even assuming you buy/melt everything you can get your grubby hands on trade is a tactic of desperation really.

You'll end up with plenty of iron weapons and armor simply from surviving sieges long before you ever have any usable quantities of bronze from trade.