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IDProjectCategoryView StatusDate SubmittedLast Update
0000434Dwarf FortressDwarf Mode -- Jobs, Itemspublic2010-04-04 18:122014-09-14 09:43
Reporterderigo 
Assigned ToToady One 
PrioritynormalSeveritytweakReproducibilityhave not tried
StatusresolvedResolutionfixed 
PlatformOSwindowsOS Versionxp
Product Version0.31.01 
Target VersionFixed in Version0.40.07 
Summary0000434: Reaction jobs (unlike other jobs) don't look outside burrow for workers and raw materials (works through manager)
DescriptionI've got plenty of smelted iron, coke, and flux stone available, but the magma smelters constructed at the bottom of the world don't list 'pig iron' as a smelting option. Normal smelters constructed elsewhere to test this problem do in fact allow pig iron to be smelted.

Certainly not game breaking, but definitely irritating. Makes steel that much more time consuming to create (all the extra coke you need).
Steps To Reproduce1) dig to the bottom of the world
2) secure an area above magma
3) build magma smelters
4) have available coke, iron bars, and flux stone
5) be unable to make pig iron
6) qq
Additional Informationincidentally, digging a vertical shaft straight down with the new way channels works AFTER you've scouted the area with stairs (for miner safety) very quickly produces an easy way to get your materials all the way down there. Just designate the top of the shaft a garbage dump zone and hurl all the ores and flux stones you need down the hole.

Getting the finished products back up, however, is still a pain. Easier than pumping magma up 150+ z levels, tho.

You can set up a burrow down there for your smiths so they never have to leave, too. :D
TagsFixed in 0.40.06?, magma, pig iron, smelter
Relationships
has duplicate 0001135closed Footkerchief magma smelters not working right 
has duplicate 0001185closed Footkerchief Cannot Produce Pig Iron 
has duplicate 0002656resolved Footkerchief unknown trigger, but after a period workshops no longer allow me to smelt compounds - steel bronze electrum etc 
has duplicate 0002730resolved Footkerchief Smelting job only designable from job manager menu 
has duplicate 0002799resolved Dwarfu "Tan a hide" not in tanner's shop "new task" list 
has duplicate 0004262resolved Footkerchief Charcoal counts as "refined coal" only at furnaces, not at forge 
has duplicate 0004582resolved Footkerchief Smelters unable to produce pig iron or steel even with materials 
has duplicate 0005277resolved Footkerchief Smelter not recognizing fuel, interference from burrow 
has duplicate 0005523resolved Dwarfu Charcoal not considered fuel for smelters? 
has duplicate 0006104resolved Knight Otu Pig iron bars option redded out, but I can produce them by queuing them in the manager screen 
has duplicate 0005934resolved Footkerchief Skins rot in refuse stockpile 
has duplicate 0005261resolved Footkerchief magma smelters won't make alloys - require fuel 
has duplicate 0007000resolved Footkerchief Smelting jobs ignored 
has duplicate 0007630resolved Dwarfu Some workshops randomly red-out available jobs 
has duplicate 0007963resolved Footkerchief Overloaded Butcher's Shop produces unusable bugged skins. 
related to 0000262resolved Toady One Render Fat job not in menu at kitchen, works in manager 
related to 0002262confirmed Footkerchief Dwarves cancel repeating workshop job when assigned to a burrow not containing materials 
related to 0001669new  Butchered Crundle scales (maybe others) cannot be tanned 
related to 0003734resolved Toady One Reactions in burrow don't use workers from outside burrow 
related to 0004309resolved Toady One Butcher shop in burrow with unreachable, butcherable items causes job cancellation spam 
related to 0004508resolved Footkerchief Butchery yeilds ignored by dwarves 
related to 0005912confirmed Toady One Workshops with linked stockpile(s) will only look in those stockpiles for materials/reagents 
related to 0007447resolved Loci Brewing doesn't work 
Attached Files
Issue History
Date ModifiedUsernameFieldChange
2010-04-04 18:12derigoNew Issue
2010-04-04 18:19QloosTag Attached: pig iron
2010-04-04 18:19QloosTag Attached: smelter
2010-04-04 18:30derigoTag Attached: magma
2010-04-04 18:40derigoNote Added: 0000974
2010-04-04 19:11derigoNote Added: 0000976
2010-04-05 00:10FootkerchiefNote Added: 0001023
2010-04-05 00:12FootkerchiefIssue Monitored: Footkerchief
2010-04-05 00:45FootkerchiefSummaryMagma smelters can't make pig iron => Building in burrow won't use raw materials outside burrow
2010-04-05 00:46FootkerchiefCategoryDwarf Mode -- Jobs, Smelting => Dwarf Mode -- Jobs, Items
2010-04-05 02:26derigoNote Added: 0001041
2010-04-05 17:34derigoNote Added: 0001265
2010-04-05 17:45DoctorZuberNote Added: 0001267
2010-04-05 18:42derigoNote Added: 0001281
2010-04-05 18:47derigoNote Edited: 0001265bug_revision_view_page.php?bugnote_id=0001265#r409
2010-04-05 21:37DoctorZuberNote Added: 0001334
2010-04-06 00:59derigoNote Added: 0001376
2010-04-06 08:58DoctorZuberNote Added: 0001468
2010-04-06 09:57FootkerchiefNote Added: 0001506
2010-04-06 14:15derigoNote Added: 0001578
2010-04-11 15:53FootkerchiefSummaryBuilding in burrow won't use raw materials outside burrow => Reaction jobs won't use raw materials outside burrow, but other jobs will
2010-04-11 15:53FootkerchiefNote Added: 0002894
2010-04-11 15:54FootkerchiefSummaryReaction jobs won't use raw materials outside burrow, but other jobs will => Reaction jobs don't use raw materials outside burrow, but other jobs do
2010-04-14 10:46FootkerchiefRelationship addedhas duplicate 0001135
2010-04-16 01:07FootkerchiefRelationship addedhas duplicate 0001185
2010-05-01 10:36ra2phoenixIssue Monitored: ra2phoenix
2010-05-19 09:10kirvoqNote Added: 0007015
2010-06-16 11:12FootkerchiefRelationship addedrelated to 0000262
2010-07-03 06:00FootkerchiefRelationship addedrelated to 0002262
2010-07-13 15:45FootkerchiefRelationship addedhas duplicate 0002656
2010-07-18 01:56FootkerchiefRelationship addedhas duplicate 0002730
2010-07-24 00:06FootkerchiefSticky IssueNo => Yes
2010-07-24 08:34FootkerchiefRelationship addedparent of 0001669
2010-08-22 02:25zunNote Added: 0012001
2010-08-22 02:26zunNote Edited: 0012001bug_revision_view_page.php?bugnote_id=0012001#r4671
2010-08-22 05:34DwarfuRelationship addedhas duplicate 0002799
2010-09-01 18:52RossMIssue Monitored: RossM
2010-10-16 07:31danarisIssue Monitored: danaris
2010-11-26 16:47FootkerchiefRelationship addedhas duplicate 0003734
2010-12-03 07:27FootkerchiefRelationship replacedrelated to 0003734
2010-12-09 08:13FootkerchiefRelationship replacedrelated to 0001669
2010-12-09 10:52FootkerchiefSummaryReaction jobs don't use raw materials outside burrow, but other jobs do => Reaction jobs (unlike other jobs) don't look outside burrow for raw materials, unless job is queued through manager
2010-12-12 20:28MinwaabiNote Added: 0014559
2010-12-12 21:20FootkerchiefSummaryReaction jobs (unlike other jobs) don't look outside burrow for raw materials, unless job is queued through manager => Reaction jobs (unlike other jobs) don't look outside burrow for workers and raw materials (works through manager)
2010-12-12 21:21FootkerchiefNote Added: 0014560
2010-12-12 21:21FootkerchiefNote Edited: 0014560bug_revision_view_page.php?bugnote_id=0014560#r5547
2011-03-07 11:34DoctorZuberNote Added: 0015908
2011-03-21 07:08FootkerchiefRelationship addedrelated to 0004262
2011-03-23 00:33SnickersnakNote Added: 0016488
2011-03-23 00:37SnickersnakNote Edited: 0016488bug_revision_view_page.php?bugnote_id=0016488#r6146
2011-03-23 07:04FootkerchiefRelationship addedrelated to 0004309
2011-03-30 10:31FootkerchiefRelationship replacedhas duplicate 0004262
2011-04-13 14:27FootkerchiefRelationship addedrelated to 0004508
2011-07-17 05:15StebNote Added: 0018264
2011-07-28 09:58FootkerchiefRelationship addedhas duplicate 0004582
2012-02-19 02:13FootkerchiefRelationship addedhas duplicate 0005277
2012-03-01 11:10DwarfuRelationship addedhas duplicate 0005523
2012-04-14 08:31maluraqNote Added: 0022261
2012-05-18 06:37FootkerchiefRelationship addedrelated to 0005912
2012-05-23 13:39BuglistIssue Monitored: Buglist
2012-05-24 15:13arclanceIssue Monitored: arclance
2012-07-22 01:16Knight OtuRelationship addedhas duplicate 0006104
2012-09-11 21:10FootkerchiefRelationship addedhas duplicate 0005934
2014-01-25 08:34vanatteveldtNote Added: 0024351
2014-02-25 10:07FootkerchiefRelationship addedrelated to 0005261
2014-02-25 10:57FootkerchiefRelationship replacedhas duplicate 0005261
2014-07-10 19:44FootkerchiefRelationship addedhas duplicate 0007000
2014-07-14 13:27FootkerchiefRelationship addedrelated to 0006784
2014-07-18 07:54FootkerchiefRelationship addedrelated to 0007445
2014-07-18 07:55FootkerchiefRelationship addedrelated to 0007447
2014-07-18 07:56FootkerchiefRelationship deletedrelated to 0007445
2014-07-25 19:57DwarfuRelationship addedhas duplicate 0007630
2014-07-25 19:59DwarfuNote Added: 0027574
2014-07-25 19:59DwarfuNote Added: 0027575
2014-07-25 20:00DwarfuAssigned To => Dwarfu
2014-07-25 20:00DwarfuStatusnew => acknowledged
2014-07-30 13:19DwarfuIssue Monitored: Dwarfu
2014-08-02 11:37DwarfuStatusacknowledged => confirmed
2014-08-07 16:14FootkerchiefTag Attached: Fixed in 0.40.06?
2014-08-07 16:15FootkerchiefNote Added: 0028543
2014-08-07 16:15FootkerchiefStatusconfirmed => needs feedback
2014-08-07 16:16FootkerchiefNote Edited: 0028543bug_revision_view_page.php?bugnote_id=0028543#r10922
2014-08-07 16:36LociNote Added: 0028544
2014-08-07 16:42LociNote Edited: 0028544bug_revision_view_page.php?bugnote_id=0028544#r10924
2014-08-07 17:55lethosorStatusneeds feedback => confirmed
2014-08-07 18:08FootkerchiefNote Added: 0028553
2014-08-08 11:36Toady OneNote Added: 0028596
2014-08-08 11:36Toady OneStatusconfirmed => resolved
2014-08-08 11:36Toady OneFixed in Version => Next Version
2014-08-08 11:36Toady OneResolutionopen => fixed
2014-08-08 11:36Toady OneAssigned ToDwarfu => Toady One
2014-08-09 11:15DwarfuIssue End Monitor: Dwarfu
2014-08-11 18:21FootkerchiefRelationship addedhas duplicate 0007963
2014-09-14 09:43lethosorSticky IssueYes => No

Notes
(0000974)
derigo   
2010-04-04 18:40   
UPDATE:
Hmm its more complicated than that. I constructed a regular smelter alongside the magma smelters, and they can't make pig iron, either. Yet the regular smelter on the surface can. *investigating*
(0000976)
derigo   
2010-04-04 19:11   
UPDATE:
Hmm. Ok this is actually a burrow issue. The smelters near the magma were in a burrow I had defined in preparation for restricting my metalworkers down there, and there was no flux stone in the burrow. It is important to note that I had not yet done anything more than define the burrow's location.

Deleting the burrow, fixed the issue.

So shop jobs that act on specific items, like smelting (smelting is the only job like this that comes to mine, and it may in fact only affect pig iron for all I know) are unable to access resources outside of that burrow, even without any kind of civilian burrow restrictions.
(0001023)
Footkerchief   
2010-04-05 00:10   
As far as I know, this is exactly what burrows are supposed do to -- any shop placed in a burrow is considered to be assigned to that burrow. Any reason why this would be contrary to intended behavior?
(0001041)
derigo   
2010-04-05 02:26   
I can do that, but its gonna be a wall of text:

I was under the impression that assigning an area as a burrow would have no effect whatsoever unless you assigned citizens to it, used it as a place to guard for military dwarves, or established a civilian alert restriction.

Citizens assigned to a burrow cannot leave it and go get whatever materials are outside of the burrow that they might want to use, so you have to have haulers bring them what they need. I don't see why the workshops should care if they're in a burrow, its the citizens that care.

Also, other workshops _don't_ care, only smelters (as far as I've been able to check). A kitchen, for instance, placed in a burrow which does not contain any cookable items, will still allow dwarves who are not assigned to that burrow to cook. (Dwarves assigned to that burrow won't be able to get to the items, so of course they can't cook.) But a smelter in the same situation, not only doesn't let you smelt, it displays that no smelting is possible.

Since you can layer burrows on top of each other, say to have a burrow for haulers, a burrow for guards, and a burrow for workers, all with slightly different shapes, but all covering the same general area, I can see this leading to terrible confusion. And since it ONLY affect smelters(again, as far as I can tell), players won't expect the workshop to behave that way (I certainly didn't).
(0001265)
derigo   
2010-04-05 17:34   
(edited on: 2010-04-05 18:47)
UPDATE:
This problem seems to affect any workshop job that is a reaction, but not jobs that aren't. So it affects pig iron, and steel, but not smelting at large. All kiln operations, any custom workshop, etc, will also be affected.

Reproduction steps(using a smelter, but any reaction workshop task will also work):

1: Build a smelter
2: Smelt some iron
3: Have iron bars, flux stone, and fuel available somewhere away from the smelter
4: Designate a burrow containing the smelter, but not one or more of the pig iron ingredients.
5: check available smelting operations on the smelter: no Smelt Pig Iron task available.
(0001267)
DoctorZuber   
2010-04-05 17:45   
a wall of text, so you're saying it's spamming you to death with failed attempts to access resources outside of the burrow ?
(0001281)
derigo   
2010-04-05 18:42   
no i was talking about my wall of text explanation.

There's no job cancellation spam for this issue, as the problem is that you cannot initiate whatever job you're trying to do in the first place.
(0001334)
DoctorZuber   
2010-04-05 21:37   
alright, well to some degree as footkerchief said this is intended behavior, But it may be you're finding some quirks in the system that may need to be looked at.

I haven't personally tried to do anything particularly fancy with burrows, I've been amusing myself with other oddities in the game mechanics. ;P
(0001376)
derigo   
2010-04-06 00:59   
No, I don't think its intended behavior. The catagory and title of this bug were kinda wrong, because I had originally misunderstood what was going on. Footkerchief renamed this bug and put it in the right category after I explained it like he asked.

He just did it sneaky-like, and didn't say anything about it. ;p
(0001468)
DoctorZuber   
2010-04-06 08:58   
yea it's cool, I've tried looking at it, but it's hard to say for sure since more general pathfinding issues crop up pretty often as well with or without burrows. makes it hard to tell what's really broken sometimes.
(0001506)
Footkerchief   
2010-04-06 09:57   
Yeah I'm still not sure whether this is intended behavior or not. It makes it useful for people who want to ensure that their workshops make crafts from a specific stone type, etc., but it's a little weird.
(0001578)
derigo   
2010-04-06 14:15   
no it won't work for crafts. If it worked for crafts and stuff, it would affect everything, and it would be a feature as you suggested, rather than a bug.

It only affects reactions. (I hope I'm getting my definition of a reaction right, I don't actually know much about the raws). When you have a workshop that's jobs are totally dependent on what resources are available for display, like a smelter, it won't work. ie if there's no iron ore available to be smelted in the burrow 'smelt iron ore' won't be displayed as an option.

When you have a workshop that lets you freely define jobs regardless of what materials are available, like a craftshop, or a masonry, etc, you won't see this bug at all. You can always define those jobs, even when the resource isn't available on the map at all. It will just cause the worker to cancel the order. Burrows don't affect this at all, unless you assign the workers to them specifically.

There's a bug here somewhere for sure, it's just debatable which behavior is the bug. If Toady wants this behavior for all shops, then it should affect all shops, and the bug becomes "Workshops in burrows WILL use raw materials outside burrow". If this behavior is unintended, then it's a bug as stated.

And incidentally, you _could_ use burrows to restrict the materials workers make in the way you describe, but you'd have to assign the workers to the burrow via the burrow menu.
[w][select burrow][c][select civie to add]
(0002894)
Footkerchief   
2010-04-11 15:53   
Alright, I updated the title to reflect the inconsistency.
(0007015)
kirvoq   
2010-05-19 09:10   
This bug doesn't actually prevent dwarfs from fulfilling the tasks if those were set before you designate a burrow in the way derigo described or if set via the job manager. It only prevents the player from setting the tasks directly in a workshop.
(0012001)
zun   
2010-08-22 02:25   
(edited on: 2010-08-22 02:26)
I can confirm this as well playing 31.12.
 
Get some charcole
Have some bitumonous coal available
Place burrow over smelter

Notice that even though all ingredients necessary for coke production are present the

"No tasks available
Check for raw material access
and fuel if necessary"

message is displayed when trying to smelt some coke at a smelter.
(0014559)
Minwaabi   
2010-12-12 20:28   
I can confirm and add some data to this as well. I'm playing 31.16.

I added a burrow for ore extraction (legendary miner only) which included my furnace. I started periodically getting the "No tasks available Check for raw material access and fuel if necessary" message. So I figured there was a bug, read this report and deleted the part of the burrow that included the smelter. Problem fixed.

Now here's the new data: the burrow that had the smelter also included all the necessary ores to make coke, iron, and copper bars but none of these reactions were possible. In fact the smelter was virtually useless because I couldn't cue any jobs. I think this is because the only dwarf with furnace operator activated was getting a drink in another burrow. I could cue jobs only when he was hanging out in the meeting zone which is in the same burrow as the smelter.
(0014560)
Footkerchief   
2010-12-12 21:21   
Thanks for investigating! I updated the summary to reflect your findings.
(0015908)
DoctorZuber   
2011-03-07 11:34   
I don't even use burrows really and I FREQUENTLY have to wait for DF to extract its proverbial head from it's proverbial backside before it will allow me to smelt pig iron or steel.

smelting raw ores it lets me do immediately, but the reactions for alloys I often end up having to argue with it.
(0016488)
Snickersnak   
2011-03-23 00:33   
(edited on: 2011-03-23 00:37)
Using 0.31.21 the same thing happens with the kitchen and mead. Put your kitchen inside a burrow with no honey and "make mead" isn't available. Extend the burrow to include honey in a stockpile and it becomes available. The presser probably does the same thing with honeycombs (although I didn't test it).

To my mind this is more of a design flaw than a bug. There's 2 different design decisions at work, and only one (or a third alternative) should be picked. Actually a lot of the "bugs" with burrows seem to be the result of having an unclear vision of how, exactly, burrows are meant to work (or having a clear vision and it not being fully implemented yet).
(0018264)
Steb   
2011-07-17 05:15   
This is a really annoying feature. I can see how it would be useful but it is causing a lot of confusion. Perhaps an option on burrow setup to "restrict workshops to burrow materials (Y/N)" would help clarify things and make solving this problem easier?
(0022261)
maluraq   
2012-04-14 08:31   
I see no updates on this bug in a long time and wish to confirm it exists in 34.07 on Linux. I have magma smelters with no burrows, iron, charcoal from wood and flux stone all one Z level away above the smelters and the option to make pig iron or steel does not exist and fails when selected claiming to require fuel?

However, the same smelters can create pig iron and steel just fine if done through the manager.
(0024351)
vanatteveldt   
2014-01-25 08:34   
Just to confirm that the issue is still open on 0.34.11 (Df2012) on linux.

I have a 'SOS' burrow intended for civilian alert that was not activated and no dwarfs are added to the burrow, but my flux stone storage is on a newly dug level not included in the SOS burrow. Pig iron is not enabled in the smelter.

Interestingly, the sphalerite storage is also on that level, and while both 'smelt sphalerite' and 'smelt tetrahedrite' are enabled in the smelter, 'make brass bars (ore)' (which uses the same ingredients) is not; so it seems the bug depends on the type of reaction.

As far as I am concerned, this is purely a bug and in no way a feature. Why should workshops be restricted by (inactive) burrows, and especially why should some tasks (make brass) be restricted while others (smelt sphalerite/tetrahedrite) aren't?
(0027574)
Dwarfu   
2014-07-25 19:59   
crossmr, just FYI, all managers can be contacted via forum PMs.
(0027575)
Dwarfu   
2014-07-25 19:59   
40.04 save from Dame de la Licorne from 0007630:
http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=9149 [^]
(0028543)
Footkerchief   
2014-08-07 16:15   
(edited on: 2014-08-07 16:16)
The 0.40.06 changelog included this: "Made buildings with burrows require a connectivity check when searching for items". That should resolve the inconsistent behavior between reactions and other jobs, and thereby this report. Does anyone disagree?
(0028544)
Loci   
2014-08-07 16:36   
(edited on: 2014-08-07 16:42)
Most emphatically. I don't know how you are interpreting that snippet, but it certainly doesn't contain sufficient detail to convince me that this problem has been considered, let alone resolved.

But, I went ahead and tested it on 40.06 again. Placing a 3x3 burrow over my magma smelter did *not* disable the hard-coded jobs (smelting ores, etc.) but *did* disable the reaction jobs (steelmaking, etc.). That is the same buggy behavior identified above, and it took me less than five minutes to verify that it's still broken.

Bonus verification: manager jobs are still able to "override" the workshop's nonsensical burrow restrictions too.
(0028553)
Footkerchief   
2014-08-07 18:08   
It's my understanding that burrow restrictions will eventually become standard for all jobs, reaction or not, but I guess that hasn't happened yet.
(0028596)
Toady One   
2014-08-08 11:36   
I've hopefully made this consistent for next time. Feel free to re-report in 0.40.07+ if any of this goes wrong:

1) dwarf assigned to burrow works only in burrow (no change)
2) burrow buildings can use items and dwarves from wherever, unless:
3) you set the new optional flag to restrict workshops to the burrow, in which case the item search is restricted to the burrow (but any dwarf with access to the building and items will still work there)

It shouldn't matter whether it is a reaction job or a manager job or whatever, although there are still some bugs to close regarding manager job assignment and spam in general.

Any other desired behavior is appropriate for suggestions (not using outside dwarves, etc etc etc). I was just shooting for some consistency.