0004065: Prisoners, civ members, and (wild?) animals released when brought to Trade Depot

(0015472)
AbuDhabi (reporter)
2011-02-24 13:06

While it's noted in the dffd link that the save was made for 0.31.19, it might be worthwhile to add a note about that in the description, now that the Product Version was changed to 0.31.01.

(0016479)
rpetiger (reporter)
2011-03-22 10:32

I wish there was a way to easily search the bug database based on words. I wouldn't post so many duplicates if I could.

(0016480)
Footkerchief (manager)
2011-03-22 10:43

I wish there was a way to easily search the bug database based on words. I wouldn't post so many duplicates if I could.

There is. Go to "View Issues" (link at the top), then enter your search terms in the search box and hit the "Apply Filter" button. You can even do quoted phrases.

(0016481)
jfs (reporter)
2011-03-22 11:14

This seems to me like it's intentional. You probably aren't supposed to be able to trade wild animals nor sentients, so it seems like the game's way of preventing that. It's just a really inconvenient way of doing it.
Either you should be prevented from bringing them to the depot in the first place (like with artifacts), or you should be prevented from selecting them for trade when they are at depot (like stolen goods).

(0016492)
AbuDhabi (reporter)
2011-03-23 08:38

I agree completely, jfs. The nature of the report is that the dwarves are doing something very stupid when told to do something morally questionable instead of objecting.

(0016507)
Infiltrator (reporter)
2011-03-24 03:51
edited on: 2011-03-24 06:33

Well, even if the intention is to disallow trading of wild animals/sentients, then the current behaviour is buggy anyway. Further, unless you are ethically against that, I don't really see the problem with doing so. Humans certainly did so; a lot. At the very least goblins and elves should be able to.

Footsy: Re the bugtracker and the search function: You have to admit that that isn't too intuitive. I only figured that out because I have no life. :P

Is there any way to make it so that there is a FAQ link which gives answers such as those?

(0018747)
Valdrax (reporter)
2011-09-21 00:22

Seems like the solution should be to remove cages containing wild animals & prisoners from the trade list.

(0018794)
AbuDhabi (reporter)
2011-10-13 03:45

Valdrax: Yes, that would work. Still, I think slave trading should be available to races that are fine with it (such as humans and goblins).

(0021688)
AbuDhabi (reporter)
2012-03-24 04:00

Can anyone check if this bug is still present in the current version?

(0021691)
Kogut (reporter)
2012-03-24 05:04

Yes, anyone (also you) can check this and produce save.

(0021704)
AbuDhabi (reporter)
2012-03-24 10:28

Kogut: Yessir. Attempting to do so. Will report on my findings.

(0021707)
AbuDhabi (reporter)
2012-03-24 14:09

http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=5985 [^]

I have replicated some of the functionality of my previous example save in the newest (.06) version of DF. Unfortunately, I don't have wild animals here, but caged dwarves, caged tame animals, caged thieves and caged goblin bowmen are available.

My findings:
Domesticated animals trade normally.
Semi-wild and trained animals trade normally (did it previously, just didn't think ahead to save).
Goblin thieves escape on attempt to bring them to depot.
Goblin bowmen escape on attempt to bring them to depot.
Dwarven entity members escape on attempt to bring them to the depot. If there are no traders available, the only other way to free them seems to be linking their cages to levers. If you do that, they deconstruct the cages when freed.

There are two unrelated bugs in the save. I'm almost sure they would have been found by now, but should I start bug filings anyway for them?
1. Two "Traders" have come with an immigration wave. They are Friendlies, but not members of the entity. They just stand around... until a dwarven caravan comes, in which case they join them. (This can be seen at http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=5986 [^])
2. Grass doesn't seem to want to regrow in the pasture on fire clay terrain. No idea why.

Could you please update the bug description with this new information?

(0021793)
AbuDhabi (reporter)
2012-03-27 08:50

Or at least change the version to indicate that it's a current problem.

(0021794)
Footkerchief (manager)
2012-03-27 09:05

The fact that the report is still open indicates that it's a current problem. Leaving the version alone lets us track how long it's been around.

Is the new information just about entity members?

(0021795)
AbuDhabi (reporter)
2012-03-27 09:33

None of this is strictly 'new', just a confirmation that it still happens pretty much verbatim in the current version.

(0023141)
Quietust (reporter)
2012-07-02 13:11
edited on: 2012-07-02 13:12

Some historical information which might be of interest:

In version 0.23.130.23a, there was a function which removed "untradeable" items and units from containers when they were picked up as part of a "Bring Item to Depot" job. Untradeable items consisted of artifacts, magical items, and Adamantine items (back then, they were quite special), and untradeable units consisted of any untameable creature (i.e. not having [PET], or having [PET_EXOTIC] without the dungeon master being present).

I have not confirmed whether or not this same logic is present in the current version, but it is highly likely that it is.

(0023475)
AbuDhabi (reporter)
2012-08-18 10:17

How does that interact with non-tame, but tameable animals being released?

(0023479)
Quietust (reporter)
2012-08-19 18:22

Are you sure that the escaping wild animals had [PET] and not [PET_EXOTIC]?

(0023622)
AbuDhabi (reporter)
2012-09-29 23:41

You can probably check in the 0.31 save. I don't have installed at the moment, though.

(0023779)
Quietust (reporter)
2012-12-17 12:27
edited on: 2012-12-17 12:37

I've just located the code for this behavior in 0.34.11 and it is pretty much identical - the only notable differences are that the item check includes the dump/burning/melt flags and doesn't care about Adamantine (and has some other special logic for corpse pieces) and that the unit check for [PET_EXOTIC] doesn't have any requirement for the dungeon master being present (since it doesn't exist anymore).

With this information, I'm strongly inclined to say that this is not a bug, but I'd prefer Toady to have the final word on this.

(0023845)
Hairy Dude (reporter)
2013-02-08 15:34

When you order a cyclops cage to be hauled to the depot, you expect it to still be a cyclops cage when it gets there, rather than reverting to a -«+tin cage+»-. The dwarf in question decides that it's better to let himself and all his friends get killed than allow a sentient being to be sold into slavery. If dwarfs did this by mistake, or based on personality, or the creature actively escaped, that wouldn't be a bug. As it is, it happens every time.

The bug here is, I think, that specifically *creatures* get evicted from their containers. The cage is intended to render something harmless; whereas inanimate objects are just more compact in a container, and dumping them on the floor doesn't pose a problem in itself.

Issue History
Date Modified	Username	Field	Change
2011-02-24 03:10	AbuDhabi	New Issue
2011-02-24 05:37	Logical2u	Relationship added	duplicate of 0000480
2011-02-24 09:03	Footkerchief	Relationship replaced	has duplicate 0000480
2011-02-24 09:03	Footkerchief	Issue Monitored: bicker x 2
2011-02-24 09:03	Footkerchief	Issue Monitored: smjjames
2011-02-24 09:03	Footkerchief	Issue Monitored: kwieland
2011-02-24 09:03	Footkerchief	Issue Monitored: madk
2011-02-24 09:03	Footkerchief	Issue Monitored: Darth GW7
2011-02-24 09:03	Footkerchief	Relationship added	related to 0002477
2011-02-24 09:04	Footkerchief	Relationship added	has duplicate 0001839
2011-02-24 09:04	Footkerchief	Relationship added	has duplicate 0001851
2011-02-24 09:04	Footkerchief	Relationship added	has duplicate 0002384
2011-02-24 09:05	Footkerchief	Summary	Prisoners and non-tame animals released when brought to Depot => Prisoners and non-tame animals released when brought to Trade Depot
2011-02-24 12:03	Footkerchief	Product Version	0.31.19 => 0.31.01
2011-02-24 13:06	AbuDhabi	Note Added: 0015472
2011-03-22 09:40	Footkerchief	Summary	Prisoners and non-tame animals released when brought to Trade Depot => Prisoners and (wild?) animals released when brought to Trade Depot
2011-03-22 09:40	Footkerchief	Relationship added	has duplicate 0004306
2011-03-22 10:32	rpetiger	Note Added: 0016479
2011-03-22 10:43	Footkerchief	Note Added: 0016480
2011-03-22 11:14	jfs	Note Added: 0016481
2011-03-22 11:54	Hieronymous Alloy	Issue Monitored: Hieronymous Alloy
2011-03-23 08:38	AbuDhabi	Note Added: 0016492
2011-03-24 03:51	Infiltrator	Note Added: 0016507
2011-03-24 06:33	Infiltrator	Note Edited: 0016507	View Revisions
2011-03-24 06:33	Infiltrator	Note Edited: 0016507	View Revisions
2011-06-04 14:59	Put	Issue Monitored: Put
2011-06-12 11:34	Drake1500	Issue Monitored: Drake1500
2011-09-21 00:22	Valdrax	Note Added: 0018747
2011-10-13 03:45	AbuDhabi	Note Added: 0018794
2012-03-24 04:00	AbuDhabi	Note Added: 0021688
2012-03-24 05:04	Kogut	Note Added: 0021691
2012-03-24 07:38	Footkerchief	Issue Monitored: Kogut
2012-03-24 08:34	Kogut	Issue End Monitor: Kogut
2012-03-24 10:28	AbuDhabi	Note Added: 0021704
2012-03-24 14:09	AbuDhabi	Note Added: 0021707
2012-03-26 09:09	AbuDhabi	Tag Attached: 0.34.06
2012-03-26 09:10	AbuDhabi	Tag Attached: trade
2012-03-26 09:18	AbuDhabi	Tag Attached: animals
2012-03-26 09:18	AbuDhabi	Tag Attached: tame
2012-03-26 09:18	AbuDhabi	Tag Attached: cages
2012-03-26 09:25	AbuDhabi	Tag Attached: hauling
2012-03-26 09:25	AbuDhabi	Tag Attached: Save Included
2012-03-26 09:25	AbuDhabi	Tag Attached: traders
2012-03-27 08:50	AbuDhabi	Note Added: 0021793
2012-03-27 09:05	Footkerchief	Note Added: 0021794
2012-03-27 09:06	Footkerchief	Summary	Prisoners and (wild?) animals released when brought to Trade Depot => Prisoners and civ members (and wild animals?) released when brought to Trade Depot
2012-03-27 09:33	AbuDhabi	Note Added: 0021795
2012-03-30 10:22	AbuDhabi	Issue Monitored: AbuDhabi
2012-07-02 13:11	Quietust	Note Added: 0023141
2012-07-02 13:12	Quietust	Note Edited: 0023141	View Revisions
2012-08-18 10:17	AbuDhabi	Note Added: 0023475
2012-08-19 18:22	Quietust	Note Added: 0023479
2012-09-29 23:41	AbuDhabi	Note Added: 0023622
2012-12-17 12:27	Quietust	Note Added: 0023779
2012-12-17 12:37	Quietust	Note Edited: 0023779	View Revisions
2013-02-08 15:34	Hairy Dude	Note Added: 0023845
2014-08-04 08:33	smjjames	Issue End Monitor: smjjames
2014-12-13 04:43	Knight Otu	Relationship added	has duplicate 0008618
2014-12-13 04:44	Knight Otu	Assigned To	=> Knight Otu
2014-12-13 04:44	Knight Otu	Status	new => confirmed
2014-12-13 04:44	Knight Otu	Summary	Prisoners and civ members (and wild animals?) released when brought to Trade Depot => Prisoners, civ members, and (wild?) animals released when brought to Trade Depot
2018-04-16 18:41	Huntthetroll	Issue Monitored: Huntthetroll

Notes
(0015472) AbuDhabi (reporter) 2011-02-24 13:06	While it's noted in the dffd link that the save was made for 0.31.19, it might be worthwhile to add a note about that in the description, now that the Product Version was changed to 0.31.01.

(0016479) rpetiger (reporter) 2011-03-22 10:32	I wish there was a way to easily search the bug database based on words. I wouldn't post so many duplicates if I could.

(0016480) Footkerchief (manager) 2011-03-22 10:43	I wish there was a way to easily search the bug database based on words. I wouldn't post so many duplicates if I could. There is. Go to "View Issues" (link at the top), then enter your search terms in the search box and hit the "Apply Filter" button. You can even do quoted phrases.

(0016481) jfs (reporter) 2011-03-22 11:14	This seems to me like it's intentional. You probably aren't supposed to be able to trade wild animals nor sentients, so it seems like the game's way of preventing that. It's just a really inconvenient way of doing it. Either you should be prevented from bringing them to the depot in the first place (like with artifacts), or you should be prevented from selecting them for trade when they are at depot (like stolen goods).

(0016492) AbuDhabi (reporter) 2011-03-23 08:38	I agree completely, jfs. The nature of the report is that the dwarves are doing something very stupid when told to do something morally questionable instead of objecting.

(0016507) Infiltrator (reporter) 2011-03-24 03:51 edited on: 2011-03-24 06:33	Well, even if the intention is to disallow trading of wild animals/sentients, then the current behaviour is buggy anyway. Further, unless you are ethically against that, I don't really see the problem with doing so. Humans certainly did so; a lot. At the very least goblins and elves should be able to. Footsy: Re the bugtracker and the search function: You have to admit that that isn't too intuitive. I only figured that out because I have no life. :P Is there any way to make it so that there is a FAQ link which gives answers such as those?

(0018747) Valdrax (reporter) 2011-09-21 00:22	Seems like the solution should be to remove cages containing wild animals & prisoners from the trade list.

(0018794) AbuDhabi (reporter) 2011-10-13 03:45	Valdrax: Yes, that would work. Still, I think slave trading should be available to races that are fine with it (such as humans and goblins).

(0021688) AbuDhabi (reporter) 2012-03-24 04:00	Can anyone check if this bug is still present in the current version?

(0021691) Kogut (reporter) 2012-03-24 05:04	Yes, anyone (also you) can check this and produce save.

(0021704) AbuDhabi (reporter) 2012-03-24 10:28	Kogut: Yessir. Attempting to do so. Will report on my findings.

(0021707) AbuDhabi (reporter) 2012-03-24 14:09	http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=5985 [^] I have replicated some of the functionality of my previous example save in the newest (.06) version of DF. Unfortunately, I don't have wild animals here, but caged dwarves, caged tame animals, caged thieves and caged goblin bowmen are available. My findings: Domesticated animals trade normally. Semi-wild and trained animals trade normally (did it previously, just didn't think ahead to save). Goblin thieves escape on attempt to bring them to depot. Goblin bowmen escape on attempt to bring them to depot. Dwarven entity members escape on attempt to bring them to the depot. If there are no traders available, the only other way to free them seems to be linking their cages to levers. If you do that, they deconstruct the cages when freed. There are two unrelated bugs in the save. I'm almost sure they would have been found by now, but should I start bug filings anyway for them? 1. Two "Traders" have come with an immigration wave. They are Friendlies, but not members of the entity. They just stand around... until a dwarven caravan comes, in which case they join them. (This can be seen at http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=5986 [^]) 2. Grass doesn't seem to want to regrow in the pasture on fire clay terrain. No idea why. Could you please update the bug description with this new information?

(0021793) AbuDhabi (reporter) 2012-03-27 08:50	Or at least change the version to indicate that it's a current problem.

(0021794) Footkerchief (manager) 2012-03-27 09:05	The fact that the report is still open indicates that it's a current problem. Leaving the version alone lets us track how long it's been around. Is the new information just about entity members?

(0021795) AbuDhabi (reporter) 2012-03-27 09:33	None of this is strictly 'new', just a confirmation that it still happens pretty much verbatim in the current version.

(0023141) Quietust (reporter) 2012-07-02 13:11 edited on: 2012-07-02 13:12	Some historical information which might be of interest: In version 0.23.130.23a, there was a function which removed "untradeable" items and units from containers when they were picked up as part of a "Bring Item to Depot" job. Untradeable items consisted of artifacts, magical items, and Adamantine items (back then, they were quite special), and untradeable units consisted of any untameable creature (i.e. not having [PET], or having [PET_EXOTIC] without the dungeon master being present). I have not confirmed whether or not this same logic is present in the current version, but it is highly likely that it is.

(0023475) AbuDhabi (reporter) 2012-08-18 10:17	How does that interact with non-tame, but tameable animals being released?

(0023479) Quietust (reporter) 2012-08-19 18:22	Are you sure that the escaping wild animals had [PET] and not [PET_EXOTIC]?

(0023622) AbuDhabi (reporter) 2012-09-29 23:41	You can probably check in the 0.31 save. I don't have installed at the moment, though.

(0023779) Quietust (reporter) 2012-12-17 12:27 edited on: 2012-12-17 12:37	I've just located the code for this behavior in 0.34.11 and it is pretty much identical - the only notable differences are that the item check includes the dump/burning/melt flags and doesn't care about Adamantine (and has some other special logic for corpse pieces) and that the unit check for [PET_EXOTIC] doesn't have any requirement for the dungeon master being present (since it doesn't exist anymore). With this information, I'm strongly inclined to say that this is not a bug, but I'd prefer Toady to have the final word on this.

(0023845) Hairy Dude (reporter) 2013-02-08 15:34	When you order a cyclops cage to be hauled to the depot, you expect it to still be a cyclops cage when it gets there, rather than reverting to a -«+tin cage+»-. The dwarf in question decides that it's better to let himself and all his friends get killed than allow a sentient being to be sold into slavery. If dwarfs did this by mistake, or based on personality, or the creature actively escaped, that wouldn't be a bug. As it is, it happens every time. The bug here is, I think, that specifically creatures get evicted from their containers. The cage is intended to render something harmless; whereas inanimate objects are just more compact in a container, and dumping them on the floor doesn't pose a problem in itself.