0001489: Super clutter with one elephant tusk

(0004879)
Areyar (reporter)
2010-04-24 07:25
edited on: 2010-04-24 07:28

Bodyparts from large creatures as well as their corpses just clutter up any workshop severely.
This is a neat system to simulate that butchering a large corpse takes longer, but there are some inconsistencies that need to be considered when it comes to crafting.

This report is a duplicate of several other clutter/crafting related reports.

Child of : 0000231
duplicate of: 0001238

(0004884)
Logical2u (manager)
2010-04-24 08:05

It's not quite the same, Areyar - Randomone is indicating that a single item - one tusk - is causing the maximum clutter.

Randomone, are you sure that there are not other pages of items in your workshop?

(0004893)
Footkerchief (manager)
2010-04-24 11:04

I suspect the clutter thing takes item size into account now.

(0004905)
Randomone (reporter)
2010-04-24 11:52

Logical2u: I don't think there was more than one page. Can't imagine why my dwarf would bring a full page of crap over, but you never know.

Footkerchief: Good point, but one tusk still shouldn't push it to maximum.

(0004908)
Footkerchief (manager)
2010-04-24 12:13
edited on: 2010-04-24 12:13

Yeah, I didn't mean to imply that it should.

(0004914)
drunken (reporter)
2010-04-24 13:09

I can confirm that it is just the tusk, in my workshop it was literally the only item there.

(0005022)
Myxine (reporter)
2010-04-25 12:51

A single elephant skin, skull, tusk or tooth will produce the same maximum cluttering. "Item size" isn't an explanation: elephant teeth (not tusks) weight <1... whatever unity DF uses.

(0005023)
smjjames (reporter)
2010-04-25 12:58

It uses kilos for weight now I believe. Then it uses volume for size or something.

If we are talking about Mammoth tusks, yea those are huge, but even a large modern day elephant tusk wouldn't take up the whole shop.

Still though, a single elephant tooth shouldn't produce much more clutter than a few craftspieces.

(0016590)
monk12 (reporter)
2011-03-25 13:23

I've got something similar- I butchered a horse, which naturally pushes my butchers shop to maximum clutter. Haulers took away everything except the hair, which has no stockpile ready.

However, despite the fact that there is a single unit of horse hair in the shop, my workshop is still at maximum clutter. The weight is 3- grant you, that is a hell of a lot of hair, but maximum clutter? Compare to the mason's shop, which has 20+ limestone floodgates (weight 80 each) and is barely cluttered at all.

I don't know how clutter works, but something is borked there whether it is an actual "bug" or just a design oversight.

(0016635)
Lav (reporter)
2011-03-26 06:57

I have the same situation: Craftsdwarf's workshop is overcluttered because of a kitten skull and three cow hooves. If you have ever seen a cow in your life, then you should know a cow hoof is roughly the same size as kitten skull.

Maybe the game takes original creature size to calculate clutter from it's byproducts?

(0016680)
greycat (reporter)
2011-03-27 11:07

In 0.31.24 (world genned and fort started in 0.31.23 though), I'm still seeing this. I have a dwarf spinning thread from a single Yak Cow hair in a Farmer's Workshop, and it's showing pink **CLT** on the workshop. Just one hair -- nothing else is in the workshop.

Similarly, any job involving the yak's bones, hooves, etc. over in the craftdwarf shop is max cluttered. In those cases, there's often a small stack of the hooves or bones, but if the hair is any indicator, that probably wouldn't matter.

(0016752)
DarthCloakedDwarf (reporter)
2011-03-28 20:10
edited on: 2011-04-02 22:03

@Footkerchief: "I suspect the clutter thing takes item size into account now."

Quite a ways back, I think it was one of my very first 2010 forts (certainly no later than .04), a couple of whales kindly beached themselves and were summarily hauled to my butcher's shop (though it took a long time for them to get there). The moment the whale corpse entered the shop, it was pink CLT.

I mean, completely justified for an entire whale carcass, but I definitely think clutter takes item size into account.

(0016765)
Drazinononda (reporter)
2011-03-29 09:43

I can confirm that it happens with Yak products also. My butcher's shop, kitchen and craftsdwarf's workshop are all cluttered, the latter with only a single skull.

(0017172)
Logical2u (manager)
2011-04-07 12:09

Coalescing this one into 0000231 for now.

Issue History
Date Modified	Username	Field	Change
2010-04-24 06:10	Randomone	New Issue
2010-04-24 06:11	Randomone	Tag Attached: bones
2010-04-24 06:11	Randomone	Tag Attached: crafting
2010-04-24 06:11	Randomone	Tag Attached: workshop
2010-04-24 06:11	Randomone	Tag Attached: clutter
2010-04-24 07:20	Areyar	Tag Attached: CLT
2010-04-24 07:25	Areyar	Note Added: 0004879
2010-04-24 07:26	Areyar	Note Edited: 0004879	View Revisions
2010-04-24 07:27	Areyar	Note Edited: 0004879	View Revisions
2010-04-24 07:28	Areyar	Note Edited: 0004879	View Revisions
2010-04-24 08:05	Logical2u	Note Added: 0004884
2010-04-24 11:03	Footkerchief	Relationship added	child of 0000231
2010-04-24 11:04	Footkerchief	Note Added: 0004893
2010-04-24 11:52	Randomone	Note Added: 0004905
2010-04-24 12:13	Footkerchief	Note Added: 0004908
2010-04-24 12:13	Footkerchief	Note Edited: 0004908	View Revisions
2010-04-24 13:09	drunken	Note Added: 0004914
2010-04-25 12:51	Myxine	Note Added: 0005022
2010-04-25 12:58	smjjames	Note Added: 0005023
2010-04-28 07:44	Khym Chanur	Issue Monitored: Khym Chanur
2011-03-25 13:23	monk12	Note Added: 0016590
2011-03-25 13:24	monk12	Issue Monitored: monk12
2011-03-26 06:57	Lav	Note Added: 0016635
2011-03-27 11:07	greycat	Note Added: 0016680
2011-03-28 20:10	DarthCloakedDwarf	Note Added: 0016752
2011-03-29 09:43	Drazinononda	Note Added: 0016765
2011-03-29 16:20	RossM	Issue Monitored: RossM
2011-04-02 22:03	DarthCloakedDwarf	Note Edited: 0016752	View Revisions
2011-04-07 12:09	Logical2u	Note Added: 0017172
2011-04-07 12:09	Logical2u	Relationship replaced	duplicate of 0000231
2011-04-07 12:09	Logical2u	Status	new => resolved
2011-04-07 12:09	Logical2u	Resolution	open => duplicate
2011-04-07 12:09	Logical2u	Assigned To	=> Logical2u
2011-04-09 21:53	Khym Chanur	Issue End Monitor: Khym Chanur
2012-03-29 12:51	monk12	Issue End Monitor: monk12

Notes
(0004879) Areyar (reporter) 2010-04-24 07:25 edited on: 2010-04-24 07:28	Bodyparts from large creatures as well as their corpses just clutter up any workshop severely. This is a neat system to simulate that butchering a large corpse takes longer, but there are some inconsistencies that need to be considered when it comes to crafting. This report is a duplicate of several other clutter/crafting related reports. Child of : 0000231 duplicate of: 0001238

(0004884) Logical2u (manager) 2010-04-24 08:05	It's not quite the same, Areyar - Randomone is indicating that a single item - one tusk - is causing the maximum clutter. Randomone, are you sure that there are not other pages of items in your workshop?

(0004893) Footkerchief (manager) 2010-04-24 11:04	I suspect the clutter thing takes item size into account now.

(0004905) Randomone (reporter) 2010-04-24 11:52	Logical2u: I don't think there was more than one page. Can't imagine why my dwarf would bring a full page of crap over, but you never know. Footkerchief: Good point, but one tusk still shouldn't push it to maximum.

(0004908) Footkerchief (manager) 2010-04-24 12:13 edited on: 2010-04-24 12:13	Yeah, I didn't mean to imply that it should.

(0004914) drunken (reporter) 2010-04-24 13:09	I can confirm that it is just the tusk, in my workshop it was literally the only item there.

(0005022) Myxine (reporter) 2010-04-25 12:51	A single elephant skin, skull, tusk or tooth will produce the same maximum cluttering. "Item size" isn't an explanation: elephant teeth (not tusks) weight <1... whatever unity DF uses.

(0005023) smjjames (reporter) 2010-04-25 12:58	It uses kilos for weight now I believe. Then it uses volume for size or something. If we are talking about Mammoth tusks, yea those are huge, but even a large modern day elephant tusk wouldn't take up the whole shop. Still though, a single elephant tooth shouldn't produce much more clutter than a few craftspieces.

(0016590) monk12 (reporter) 2011-03-25 13:23	I've got something similar- I butchered a horse, which naturally pushes my butchers shop to maximum clutter. Haulers took away everything except the hair, which has no stockpile ready. However, despite the fact that there is a single unit of horse hair in the shop, my workshop is still at maximum clutter. The weight is 3- grant you, that is a hell of a lot of hair, but maximum clutter? Compare to the mason's shop, which has 20+ limestone floodgates (weight 80 each) and is barely cluttered at all. I don't know how clutter works, but something is borked there whether it is an actual "bug" or just a design oversight.

(0016635) Lav (reporter) 2011-03-26 06:57	I have the same situation: Craftsdwarf's workshop is overcluttered because of a kitten skull and three cow hooves. If you have ever seen a cow in your life, then you should know a cow hoof is roughly the same size as kitten skull. Maybe the game takes original creature size to calculate clutter from it's byproducts?

(0016680) greycat (reporter) 2011-03-27 11:07	In 0.31.24 (world genned and fort started in 0.31.23 though), I'm still seeing this. I have a dwarf spinning thread from a single Yak Cow hair in a Farmer's Workshop, and it's showing pink CLT on the workshop. Just one hair -- nothing else is in the workshop. Similarly, any job involving the yak's bones, hooves, etc. over in the craftdwarf shop is max cluttered. In those cases, there's often a small stack of the hooves or bones, but if the hair is any indicator, that probably wouldn't matter.

(0016752) DarthCloakedDwarf (reporter) 2011-03-28 20:10 edited on: 2011-04-02 22:03	@Footkerchief: "I suspect the clutter thing takes item size into account now." Quite a ways back, I think it was one of my very first 2010 forts (certainly no later than .04), a couple of whales kindly beached themselves and were summarily hauled to my butcher's shop (though it took a long time for them to get there). The moment the whale corpse entered the shop, it was pink CLT. I mean, completely justified for an entire whale carcass, but I definitely think clutter takes item size into account.

(0016765) Drazinononda (reporter) 2011-03-29 09:43	I can confirm that it happens with Yak products also. My butcher's shop, kitchen and craftsdwarf's workshop are all cluttered, the latter with only a single skull.

(0017172) Logical2u (manager) 2011-04-07 12:09	Coalescing this one into 0000231 for now.