0000231: Body parts from large creatures (bones, meat, leather, tusks, etc) slow workshops down due to clutter

(0000412)
Ymrel (reporter)
2010-04-02 21:06

Not sure if this qualifies as a bug. From a realism standpoint, it should take longer to carve many bones as compared to a few bones. Taking the entire stack at once might be a problem, but I'm not sure if it's a "bug".

(0000420)
oliver (reporter)
2010-04-02 21:28

The problem is that it's not taking a long time to carve a big stack; it's taking a long time to carve a single bone from a big stack. Each job only processes 1 bone, and is much slower than an equivalent job processing 1 bone from a smaller stack.

(0000436)
DoctorZuber (reporter)
2010-04-02 23:16

soo...
60 bones
Worker hauls all 60 bones
crafting shop becomes instantly cluttered

so crafting arrows, trade goods, whatever, is therefore done at a highly reduced rate simply because of the quirk of haulers bringing a full stack at once on you.

While I agree this sounds annoying, I would not classify this as a major issue.

(0000445)
Ampersand (reporter)
2010-04-03 00:15

Bone stacks probably ought to be divided into easier to digest stacks. This probably is a bug, just from noting a lot of the other hauling related bugs, so I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss it.

(0000703)
GauHelldragon (reporter)
2010-04-03 16:12

I've had the same clutter problem with even a single skull or tusk of an elephant. The butchery shop remains ultra cluttered with 1 item of elephant cartillage.

Speaking of elephant bone bolts... the huge stacks that clutter up the workshop only seem to result in 5 bone bolts :P

(0004272)
Von Krieger (reporter)
2010-04-19 15:34

Yeah, elephant tusks, skulls, heck even an elephant eyeball will clutter up a workshop.

(0005514)
random51 (reporter)
2010-04-28 06:22

You think elephants are bad, try this with a jabberer.

Any jabberer item puts a workshop at max clutter.

(0011442)
greycat (reporter)
2010-08-03 08:50

A Draltha tooth or skull also clutters the workshop, all by itself. Not max clutter, but red. Even though the tooth is listed as weighing "<1Gamma".

Apparently there's some sort of flag attached to these items, independent of their weight, which makes them act unreasonably when they're in workshops.

(0016632)
RedKing (reporter)
2011-03-26 05:39

I can confirm that this behavior occurs with dralthas and yaks. One yak cow skull has my craftsdwarf shop at max clutter.

(0016707)
Blah (reporter)
2011-03-28 01:07
edited on: 2011-03-28 01:11

Also occurs with a Stray Yak Calf Skin. A single one is enough to (CLT) my Tanner's Workshop.

Doesn't occur with Stray Alpaca Skin, Stray Goat Skin.

(0016716)
Xelanthol (reporter)
2011-03-28 06:45

Yeah this is frustrating-I would appreciate a look at this in the next bug fix. :3

(0016992)
Rhenaya (reporter)
2011-04-02 14:47

i noticed that yak stuff is in general prone to clutter everything

i am currently making bone bolts on several workshops, they are all kept tidy so only the work material is in them and still i get something like that:

yak bull bone (3) -> *clt*
giant badger bone (14) -> (clt)
stray horse foal bone (13) -> (clt)

so 3 yak bull bones seem to clutter a workshop more than 5 times giant badger ones

(0017241)
kwieland (reporter)
2011-04-09 10:04

A single buffalo hair, 8 weight, causes extreme clutter in a farmer's workshop.

(0017410)
Immacolata (reporter)
2011-04-17 00:58
edited on: 2011-04-27 00:11

Stray horse bones do the same in 31.25 - bones from one Stray horse (8 it seems) in my Craftdwarfs workshop causes purple *CLT*. http://postimage.org/image/1hswu68x0/ [^]

(0017729)
Ratalon (reporter)
2011-05-14 20:17

31.25 - The single Stray Yak Skull being made into a totem = purple clutter.

(0018056)
afftor (reporter)
2011-06-27 14:34

This bug makes all butcher related skills (bonecarve, tanning, cooking etc) quite annoying to use. I hope at least this gonna be fixed some day.

(0019949)
foxbyte (reporter)
2012-02-17 11:47

As of 34.01 this bug is still present.

(0020390)
janglur (reporter)
2012-02-21 10:02

Still present and rather disruptive

(0020478)
kingpeonidas (reporter)
2012-02-22 12:50
edited on: 2012-02-22 13:08

This could be easily fixed by having clutter calculations ignore one item (or stack), of which being any largest item in the shop at a given time. One big thing doesnt cause clutter, its just there, the other things are what keep you from working with the one large item (or stack), they are the clutter. It would be understandable that byproducts could be a clutter causing thing although unrepresented in item or inventory in the game, so some additional calculation although less severe could be added only encompassing the size of the largest item (or stack), for instance clutter for item 1 being (c = sqrt(s)*m) (clutter = squareroot of size multiplied by a coefficient (m)). this would allow the largest item (or stack) to only have a clutter effect much less severe while still paving the road for some penalty for manufacturing using T-Rex bones.

The final equation for clutter would end up being (c = (sqrt(s1)*m) + s2*m)
clutter = root of largest item (or stack) times coefficient added to the result of size of all other items multiplied by coefficient.

Or a more computationally friendly equation would instead of using a square root which would prevent issues with unforseen updates with incredibly large boned creature, would be to simply divide by a factor the first size. I perceive this method although less computationally intensive is merely a band-aid solution instead of the one change fix all method above in the sqrt equation.
EX. (c = s1*m/4) + s2*m)

LEGEND c=clutter, s1= size of largest item/stack, s2= size of all items stored not including s1, m= coefficient for clutter calculation.

Alternatively this could be introduced not in the clutter calculation at all, but instead in the workshop's inventory by detecting the largest item in the inventory each time the contents change and spoofing a rooted value of the size to be reported to the inventory itself temporarily until that item is removed which the liberty would then be passed upon the next smallest item, or another larger one is introduced removing liberty and passing it up to the new candidate for rooted size reporting. The addition of a boolean value to the objects tracked could keep record of the item with a spoofed size to indicate necessity to be squared before it is removed from the workshops inventory, and be squared when viewed as a single item through description.

(0020561)
Qmarx (reporter)
2012-02-23 11:45

Yeah, two panda skulls puts my butcher shop in the red. How clutter looks at sizes needs to be reworked.

(0020618)
afftor (reporter)
2012-02-24 12:58

I like how this issue is not even acknowledged yet.

(0020803)
kingpeonidas (reporter)
2012-02-27 15:05
edited on: 2012-02-27 15:07

agreed afftor.

mabye there should be a workshop resize option so you can make a 4x7 bone carver if you deployed in a elephant rich area.

(0020828)
etherflan (reporter)
2012-02-27 23:52
edited on: 2012-02-27 23:56

I think this bugtracker needs a duplicate mark because "resolved" is kind of confusing to navigate.
If you look at the actual report you see that resolution = duplicate. Oh well.
From what I understand this is now the main bug report?

(0020835)
Footkerchief (manager)
2012-02-28 06:28

Use the "Manage Columns" page to make the resolution show up on the bug list page: http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/account_manage_columns_page.php [^]

Issue History
Date Modified	Username	Field	Change
2010-04-02 20:46	oliver	New Issue
2010-04-02 21:06	Ymrel	Note Added: 0000412
2010-04-02 21:28	oliver	Note Added: 0000420
2010-04-02 21:39	clamity	Tag Attached: bones
2010-04-02 21:39	clamity	Tag Attached: workshop
2010-04-02 23:16	DoctorZuber	Note Added: 0000436
2010-04-03 00:15	Ampersand	Note Added: 0000445
2010-04-03 16:12	GauHelldragon	Note Added: 0000703
2010-04-09 03:42	Khym Chanur	Issue Monitored: Khym Chanur
2010-04-16 10:09	Footkerchief	Relationship added	parent of 0001238
2010-04-19 15:34	Von Krieger	Note Added: 0004272
2010-04-24 11:03	Footkerchief	Relationship added	parent of 0001489
2010-04-28 04:39	Logical2u	Relationship added	has duplicate 0001603
2010-04-28 04:43	Logical2u	Summary	Bone stacks from large creatures slow workshops right down => Bone, food stacks from large creatures slow workshops right down
2010-04-28 04:43	Logical2u	Description Updated	View Revisions
2010-04-28 04:44	Logical2u	Summary	Bone, food stacks from large creatures slow workshops right down => Bone, food stacks from large creatures slows workshops down due to clutter
2010-04-28 06:22	random51	Note Added: 0005514
2010-04-28 13:58	Footkerchief	Category	General => Dwarf Mode -- Buildings, General
2010-06-22 09:05	Footkerchief	Relationship replaced	has duplicate 0001238
2010-06-22 09:05	Footkerchief	Relationship added	related to 0000808
2010-08-03 08:50	greycat	Note Added: 0011442
2011-03-12 09:39	Logical2u	Relationship added	has duplicate 0004202
2011-03-12 11:49	Seraph	Issue Monitored: Seraph
2011-03-25 13:26	Footkerchief	Relationship added	has duplicate 0004341
2011-03-26 05:39	RedKing	Note Added: 0016632
2011-03-28 01:07	Blah	Note Added: 0016707
2011-03-28 01:11	Blah	Note Edited: 0016707	View Revisions
2011-03-28 01:11	Blah	Note Edited: 0016707	View Revisions
2011-03-28 06:45	Xelanthol	Note Added: 0016716
2011-04-01 12:40	Footkerchief	Relationship added	has duplicate 0004418
2011-04-01 20:11	nb4est	Issue Monitored: nb4est
2011-04-02 14:47	Rhenaya	Note Added: 0016992
2011-04-02 14:47	Rhenaya	Issue Monitored: Rhenaya
2011-04-07 11:30	Logical2u	Relationship added	parent of 0004465
2011-04-07 11:37	Footkerchief	Summary	Bone, food stacks from large creatures slows workshops down due to clutter => Stacks of body parts from large creatures (bone, meat, leather, etc) slow workshops down due to clutter
2011-04-07 11:38	Footkerchief	Relationship replaced	has duplicate 0004465
2011-04-07 12:09	Logical2u	Relationship replaced	has duplicate 0001489
2011-04-07 12:09	Logical2u	Issue Monitored: monk12
2011-04-07 12:09	Logical2u	Issue Monitored: RossM
2011-04-07 12:09	Logical2u	Summary	Stacks of body parts from large creatures (bone, meat, leather, etc) slow workshops down due to clutter => Body parts from large creatures (bones, meat, leather, tusks, etc) slow workshops down due to clutter
2011-04-07 14:18	Dawide	Issue Monitored: Dawide
2011-04-07 22:11	wRAR	Issue Monitored: wRAR
2011-04-09 10:04	kwieland	Note Added: 0017241
2011-04-17 00:58	Immacolata	Issue Monitored: Immacolata
2011-04-17 00:58	Immacolata	Note Added: 0017410
2011-04-17 01:00	Immacolata	Note Edited: 0017410	View Revisions
2011-04-17 09:01	Hieronymous Alloy	Issue Monitored: Hieronymous Alloy
2011-04-27 00:11	Immacolata	Note Edited: 0017410	View Revisions
2011-05-14 20:17	Ratalon	Note Added: 0017729
2011-06-27 14:34	afftor	Note Added: 0018056
2011-08-03 08:24	Knight Otu	Relationship added	has duplicate 0004800
2012-02-17 11:47	foxbyte	Note Added: 0019949
2012-02-17 12:13	Footkerchief	Sticky Issue	No => Yes
2012-02-21 10:02	janglur	Note Added: 0020390
2012-02-22 12:50	kingpeonidas	Note Added: 0020478
2012-02-22 12:50	kingpeonidas	Issue Monitored: kingpeonidas
2012-02-22 12:53	kingpeonidas	Note Edited: 0020478	View Revisions
2012-02-22 12:56	kingpeonidas	Note Edited: 0020478	View Revisions
2012-02-22 13:00	kingpeonidas	Note Edited: 0020478	View Revisions
2012-02-22 13:00	kingpeonidas	Note Edited: 0020478	View Revisions
2012-02-22 13:01	kingpeonidas	Note Edited: 0020478	View Revisions
2012-02-22 13:01	kingpeonidas	Note Edited: 0020478	View Revisions
2012-02-22 13:05	kingpeonidas	Note Edited: 0020478	View Revisions
2012-02-22 13:08	kingpeonidas	Note Edited: 0020478	View Revisions
2012-02-23 11:45	Qmarx	Note Added: 0020561
2012-02-24 12:58	afftor	Note Added: 0020618
2012-02-26 11:48	Buglist	Issue Monitored: Buglist
2012-02-27 15:05	kingpeonidas	Note Added: 0020803
2012-02-27 15:07	kingpeonidas	Note Edited: 0020803	View Revisions
2012-02-27 23:52	etherflan	Note Added: 0020828
2012-02-27 23:54	etherflan	Note Edited: 0020828	View Revisions
2012-02-27 23:56	etherflan	Note Edited: 0020828	View Revisions
2012-02-28 06:28	Footkerchief	Note Added: 0020835
2012-03-14 03:58	Toady One	Status	new => resolved
2012-03-14 03:58	Toady One	Fixed in Version	=> Next Version
2012-03-14 03:58	Toady One	Resolution	open => fixed
2012-03-14 03:58	Toady One	Assigned To	=> Toady One
2012-03-15 13:02	Footkerchief	Sticky Issue	Yes => No
2012-03-15 15:35	Buglist	Issue End Monitor: Buglist
2012-03-27 09:24	Rhenaya	Issue End Monitor: Rhenaya
2012-04-22 09:02	Seraph	Issue End Monitor: Seraph
2012-11-27 18:18	nb4est	Issue End Monitor: nb4est

Notes
(0000412) Ymrel (reporter) 2010-04-02 21:06	Not sure if this qualifies as a bug. From a realism standpoint, it should take longer to carve many bones as compared to a few bones. Taking the entire stack at once might be a problem, but I'm not sure if it's a "bug".

(0000420) oliver (reporter) 2010-04-02 21:28	The problem is that it's not taking a long time to carve a big stack; it's taking a long time to carve a single bone from a big stack. Each job only processes 1 bone, and is much slower than an equivalent job processing 1 bone from a smaller stack.

(0000436) DoctorZuber (reporter) 2010-04-02 23:16	soo... 60 bones Worker hauls all 60 bones crafting shop becomes instantly cluttered so crafting arrows, trade goods, whatever, is therefore done at a highly reduced rate simply because of the quirk of haulers bringing a full stack at once on you. While I agree this sounds annoying, I would not classify this as a major issue.

(0000445) Ampersand (reporter) 2010-04-03 00:15	Bone stacks probably ought to be divided into easier to digest stacks. This probably is a bug, just from noting a lot of the other hauling related bugs, so I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss it.

(0000703) GauHelldragon (reporter) 2010-04-03 16:12	I've had the same clutter problem with even a single skull or tusk of an elephant. The butchery shop remains ultra cluttered with 1 item of elephant cartillage. Speaking of elephant bone bolts... the huge stacks that clutter up the workshop only seem to result in 5 bone bolts :P

(0004272) Von Krieger (reporter) 2010-04-19 15:34	Yeah, elephant tusks, skulls, heck even an elephant eyeball will clutter up a workshop.

(0005514) random51 (reporter) 2010-04-28 06:22	You think elephants are bad, try this with a jabberer. Any jabberer item puts a workshop at max clutter.

(0011442) greycat (reporter) 2010-08-03 08:50	A Draltha tooth or skull also clutters the workshop, all by itself. Not max clutter, but red. Even though the tooth is listed as weighing "<1Gamma". Apparently there's some sort of flag attached to these items, independent of their weight, which makes them act unreasonably when they're in workshops.

(0016632) RedKing (reporter) 2011-03-26 05:39	I can confirm that this behavior occurs with dralthas and yaks. One yak cow skull has my craftsdwarf shop at max clutter.

(0016707) Blah (reporter) 2011-03-28 01:07 edited on: 2011-03-28 01:11	Also occurs with a Stray Yak Calf Skin. A single one is enough to (CLT) my Tanner's Workshop. Doesn't occur with Stray Alpaca Skin, Stray Goat Skin.

(0016716) Xelanthol (reporter) 2011-03-28 06:45	Yeah this is frustrating-I would appreciate a look at this in the next bug fix. :3

(0016992) Rhenaya (reporter) 2011-04-02 14:47	i noticed that yak stuff is in general prone to clutter everything i am currently making bone bolts on several workshops, they are all kept tidy so only the work material is in them and still i get something like that: yak bull bone (3) -> clt giant badger bone (14) -> (clt) stray horse foal bone (13) -> (clt) so 3 yak bull bones seem to clutter a workshop more than 5 times giant badger ones

(0017241) kwieland (reporter) 2011-04-09 10:04	A single buffalo hair, 8 weight, causes extreme clutter in a farmer's workshop.

(0017410) Immacolata (reporter) 2011-04-17 00:58 edited on: 2011-04-27 00:11	Stray horse bones do the same in 31.25 - bones from one Stray horse (8 it seems) in my Craftdwarfs workshop causes purple CLT. http://postimage.org/image/1hswu68x0/ [^]

(0017729) Ratalon (reporter) 2011-05-14 20:17	31.25 - The single Stray Yak Skull being made into a totem = purple clutter.

(0018056) afftor (reporter) 2011-06-27 14:34	This bug makes all butcher related skills (bonecarve, tanning, cooking etc) quite annoying to use. I hope at least this gonna be fixed some day.

(0019949) foxbyte (reporter) 2012-02-17 11:47	As of 34.01 this bug is still present.

(0020390) janglur (reporter) 2012-02-21 10:02	Still present and rather disruptive

(0020478) kingpeonidas (reporter) 2012-02-22 12:50 edited on: 2012-02-22 13:08	This could be easily fixed by having clutter calculations ignore one item (or stack), of which being any largest item in the shop at a given time. One big thing doesnt cause clutter, its just there, the other things are what keep you from working with the one large item (or stack), they are the clutter. It would be understandable that byproducts could be a clutter causing thing although unrepresented in item or inventory in the game, so some additional calculation although less severe could be added only encompassing the size of the largest item (or stack), for instance clutter for item 1 being (c = sqrt(s)m) (clutter = squareroot of size multiplied by a coefficient (m)). this would allow the largest item (or stack) to only have a clutter effect much less severe while still paving the road for some penalty for manufacturing using T-Rex bones. The final equation for clutter would end up being (c = (sqrt(s1)m) + s2m) clutter = root of largest item (or stack) times coefficient added to the result of size of all other items multiplied by coefficient. Or a more computationally friendly equation would instead of using a square root which would prevent issues with unforseen updates with incredibly large boned creature, would be to simply divide by a factor the first size. I perceive this method although less computationally intensive is merely a band-aid solution instead of the one change fix all method above in the sqrt equation. EX. (c = s1m/4) + s2*m) LEGEND c=clutter, s1= size of largest item/stack, s2= size of all items stored not including s1, m= coefficient for clutter calculation. Alternatively this could be introduced not in the clutter calculation at all, but instead in the workshop's inventory by detecting the largest item in the inventory each time the contents change and spoofing a rooted value of the size to be reported to the inventory itself temporarily until that item is removed which the liberty would then be passed upon the next smallest item, or another larger one is introduced removing liberty and passing it up to the new candidate for rooted size reporting. The addition of a boolean value to the objects tracked could keep record of the item with a spoofed size to indicate necessity to be squared before it is removed from the workshops inventory, and be squared when viewed as a single item through description.

(0020561) Qmarx (reporter) 2012-02-23 11:45	Yeah, two panda skulls puts my butcher shop in the red. How clutter looks at sizes needs to be reworked.

(0020618) afftor (reporter) 2012-02-24 12:58	I like how this issue is not even acknowledged yet.

(0020803) kingpeonidas (reporter) 2012-02-27 15:05 edited on: 2012-02-27 15:07	agreed afftor. mabye there should be a workshop resize option so you can make a 4x7 bone carver if you deployed in a elephant rich area.

(0020828) etherflan (reporter) 2012-02-27 23:52 edited on: 2012-02-27 23:56	I think this bugtracker needs a duplicate mark because "resolved" is kind of confusing to navigate. If you look at the actual report you see that resolution = duplicate. Oh well. From what I understand this is now the main bug report?

(0020835) Footkerchief (manager) 2012-02-28 06:28	Use the "Manage Columns" page to make the resolution show up on the bug list page: http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/account_manage_columns_page.php [^]