0005356: Undead tissues (hair, feathers, fur) attack but cannot be hit

(0020350)
Andrakon (reporter)
2012-02-21 03:57

I had undead wool appear in 34.01. I nearly hit the floor laughing!

(0021275)
h-land (reporter)
2012-03-08 15:08

This happened to me in 34.05 just today; the difference is that rather than have the hair bring itself to life, it was brought to life in the midst of an undead siege. Mussel shells were also raised. Hair and hooves in a trading depot underground were not disturbed. Save uploaded to http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=5817 [^]

(0021301)
Teddy (reporter)
2012-03-09 02:37

I was carrying around the feathers of a Roc I killed in adventure mode (because why not) until I encountered a mummy in a tomb who raised it as a [Roc's name]'s Undead Feathers. As far as I remember, the feathers actually had a head, an upper and lower body and wings (probably because that's where you find them), but any attempts at striking it with my scimitar passed straigth through it and all my kicks and punches glanced away.

I can't say that I dislike the idea of a bird-shaped mass of feathers trying to suffocate you or whatnot (I was a vampire, so it didn't try to attack me and I don't know how effective it would be), although it would be nice if it was possible to kill.

(0021443)
Footkerchief (manager)
2012-03-13 08:48

As per Toady's post today, it's intentional for hair (and probably feathers) to reanimate: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=100851.msg3088752#msg3088752 [^]

If it's impossible to hit them, that's a problem. More corroboration on that aspect would be helpful, as that's the only thing keeping this report open.

(0021446)
thvaz (reporter)
2012-03-13 12:47
edited on: 2012-03-13 12:47

Do furry creatures generate a skin when butchered? Maybe this hair is just badly named, and it should be "pelt" instead - skin and fur. It wouldn't be weirder than a hollow skin at least.

(0021450)
Kumquat (reporter)
2012-03-13 13:51

They generate both skin and hair, they're different material layers.

(0029787)
carbohydrates (reporter)
2014-08-29 22:10
edited on: 2014-08-29 22:15

This is still an issue as of 40.10

It is definitely impossible to hit them - small enough reanimated tissues, at least. It was possible for my dwarves to kill a reanimated horse hair, very easily - but a horse *head* hair is impossible to hit.

It appears to be unable to successfully hit dwarves. Even when the hair succeedes in a push, it doesn't have enough mass to do anything.

So they are locked in combat, missing every single hit, forever. Dwarves gain a ludicrous amount of combat experience from this type of fighting.

I started this reddit thread before looking for a relevant bug report;

http://www.reddit.com/r/dwarffortress/comments/2ez9gc/bodypart_hair_zombies_the_eternal_battle/ [^]

Here's a sample of a combat log;

http://i.imgur.com/eMRPIT4.png [^]

There's no way that this is the intended behavior of undead tissues.

(0029813)
Agent_Irons (reporter)
2014-08-30 15:44

So it would appear that there is really just one/two? bug(s) here: the one where creatures can't damage things that are much less massive than them. (00787) The horse-shaped hair layer is butchered away, and inherits the tokens that make it raisable, just as the skin does. That seems to be intended for the skin at least and delightfully creepy either way.

Then when the hairbeast is dismembered further they pass some critical threshold where they are too light to damage, which causes problems..

(0030193)
Footkerchief (manager)
2014-09-14 17:41

ZzarkLinux posted saves at 0008298.

(0032299)
jwoodward48df (reporter)
2015-03-01 19:08

I just had this happen to me, but eventually the yak hair died. I think it was from a war dog biting it... No, my zombies just sometimes "deanimate" after receiving a bit of damage. Weird.

(0032965)
ZzarkLinux (reporter)
2015-08-16 10:52

Any update on this?

Dwarf Fortress zombie-armageddon games are a unique and fun feature, so I'm surprised this hasn't changed.

I stopped gaming a year ago, but this feature discourages zombie embarks; once the first un-hittable thing reanimates and aggros your dwarves then it hurts the replayability.

(0033012)
carbohydrates (reporter)
2015-08-30 11:02

Yeah, I am surprised this is still unresolved, and also that it's marked as 'minor'...I mean, it isn't completely gamebreaking, if you aren't in a reanimating biome.

But if you are, it *is* completely gamebreaking.

This should be marked as 'major'. Its severity is greater than many of the other issues marked as 'major'. 0000797, pet pathing through locked doors causing lag, is marked as major. That one doesn't even break any part of the game, it just causes lag.

This one completely breaks a huge, and fun, part of the game - playing near the reanimated dead. It's just impossible to do right now.

(0033019)
Detros (manager)
2015-08-31 14:42

1) "severity" by itself is not used when queuing bugs for fixing, so it can be filled with what the original reporter thought was appropriate in that time
2) Currently are developers adding new features. According to devlog it seems this part may end soon and there is surely be several runs of bugfixing once this group of features is completed.

(0033738)
mispy (reporter)
2015-12-10 13:13

Just encountered this bug in 0.42.02, with a necromancer-raised goblin head. Save here: http://dffd.bay12games.com/file.php?id=11448 [^]

(0036901)
Toady One (administrator)
2017-11-20 14:03

I fixed a related issue and that allowed me to put down various undead hair creatures. But it's possible there are other forms. When 0.44+ drops, we can reevaluate.

Issue History
Date Modified	Username	Field	Change
2012-02-21 01:10	HollowClown	New Issue
2012-02-21 01:23	Knight Otu	Tag Attached: Intentional/Expected?
2012-02-21 01:40	kingpeonidas	Tag Attached: bald
2012-02-21 01:42	kingpeonidas	Tag Attached: hair
2012-02-21 01:42	kingpeonidas	Tag Attached: necromancy
2012-02-21 03:57	Andrakon	Note Added: 0020350
2012-02-21 07:11	Footkerchief	Issue Monitored: kingpeonidas
2012-03-08 15:08	h-land	Note Added: 0021275
2012-03-08 15:33	Footkerchief	Relationship added	related to 0005139
2012-03-09 02:37	Teddy	Note Added: 0021301
2012-03-13 08:48	Footkerchief	Note Added: 0021443
2012-03-13 08:50	Footkerchief	Tag Attached: AWAITING UPDATE
2012-03-13 12:47	thvaz	Note Added: 0021446
2012-03-13 12:47	thvaz	Note Edited: 0021446	View Revisions
2012-03-13 13:51	Kumquat	Note Added: 0021450
2012-03-15 19:58	Logical2u	Relationship added	parent of 0005651
2012-03-16 07:49	Footkerchief	Relationship replaced	has duplicate 0005651
2012-03-18 06:36	Logical2u	Relationship added	parent of 0005672
2012-03-19 06:49	Footkerchief	Relationship replaced	has duplicate 0005672
2013-09-23 09:24	Footkerchief	Summary	Undead hair rises from butcher shop => Undead tissues (hair, feathers, fur) attack but cannot be hit
2014-01-21 19:04	Footkerchief	Relationship added	related to 0000787
2014-01-21 19:04	Footkerchief	Relationship replaced	duplicate of 0000787
2014-01-21 19:04	Footkerchief	Status	new => resolved
2014-01-21 19:04	Footkerchief	Resolution	open => duplicate
2014-01-21 19:04	Footkerchief	Assigned To	=> Footkerchief
2014-08-04 15:01	Footkerchief	Tag Detached: AWAITING UPDATE
2014-08-23 19:55	Footkerchief	Status	resolved => confirmed
2014-08-23 19:55	Footkerchief	Relationship replaced	related to 0000787
2014-08-23 19:55	Footkerchief	Relationship added	has duplicate 0008130
2014-08-29 22:10	carbohydrates	Note Added: 0029787
2014-08-29 22:14	carbohydrates	Note Edited: 0029787	View Revisions
2014-08-29 22:15	carbohydrates	Note Edited: 0029787	View Revisions
2014-08-29 22:23	carbohydrates	Tag Attached: [equips]
2014-08-29 22:23	carbohydrates	Tag Attached: horrified
2014-08-29 22:23	carbohydrates	Tag Attached: not fixed
2014-08-29 22:23	carbohydrates	Tag Attached: reanimation
2014-08-29 22:23	carbohydrates	Tag Attached: remains
2014-08-29 22:23	carbohydrates	Tag Attached: soldier
2014-08-29 22:23	carbohydrates	Tag Attached: still happens
2014-08-29 22:23	carbohydrates	Tag Attached: undead
2014-08-29 22:23	carbohydrates	Tag Attached: zombie
2014-08-29 22:23	carbohydrates	Tag Attached: zombies
2014-08-30 15:44	Agent_Irons	Note Added: 0029813
2014-09-14 17:41	Footkerchief	Relationship added	has duplicate 0008298
2014-09-14 17:41	Footkerchief	Note Added: 0030193
2015-02-01 04:49	Knight Otu	Relationship added	has duplicate 0008778
2015-02-01 08:33	lethosor	Tag Detached: not fixed
2015-02-01 08:34	lethosor	Tag Detached: still happens
2015-02-01 08:36	lethosor	Issue Monitored: carbohydrates
2015-02-01 08:37	lethosor	Tag Detached: bald
2015-02-01 08:37	lethosor	Tag Detached: [equips]
2015-02-01 08:38	lethosor	Tag Detached: horrified
2015-02-01 08:38	lethosor	Tag Detached: soldier
2015-02-01 08:38	lethosor	Tag Detached: zombie
2015-03-01 19:08	jwoodward48df	Note Added: 0032299
2015-03-02 01:16	Detros	Issue Monitored: Detros
2015-03-02 07:22	4maskwolf	Issue Monitored: 4maskwolf
2015-08-16 10:52	ZzarkLinux	Note Added: 0032965
2015-08-30 11:02	carbohydrates	Note Added: 0033012
2015-08-31 14:42	Detros	Note Added: 0033019
2015-12-10 13:13	mispy	Note Added: 0033738
2017-11-20 14:03	Toady One	Note Added: 0036901
2017-11-20 14:03	Toady One	Status	confirmed => resolved
2017-11-20 14:03	Toady One	Fixed in Version	=> Next Version
2017-11-20 14:03	Toady One	Assigned To	Footkerchief => Toady One
2017-12-29 09:44	4maskwolf	Issue End Monitor: 4maskwolf

Notes
(0020350) Andrakon (reporter) 2012-02-21 03:57	I had undead wool appear in 34.01. I nearly hit the floor laughing!

(0021275) h-land (reporter) 2012-03-08 15:08	This happened to me in 34.05 just today; the difference is that rather than have the hair bring itself to life, it was brought to life in the midst of an undead siege. Mussel shells were also raised. Hair and hooves in a trading depot underground were not disturbed. Save uploaded to http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=5817 [^]

(0021301) Teddy (reporter) 2012-03-09 02:37	I was carrying around the feathers of a Roc I killed in adventure mode (because why not) until I encountered a mummy in a tomb who raised it as a [Roc's name]'s Undead Feathers. As far as I remember, the feathers actually had a head, an upper and lower body and wings (probably because that's where you find them), but any attempts at striking it with my scimitar passed straigth through it and all my kicks and punches glanced away. I can't say that I dislike the idea of a bird-shaped mass of feathers trying to suffocate you or whatnot (I was a vampire, so it didn't try to attack me and I don't know how effective it would be), although it would be nice if it was possible to kill.

(0021443) Footkerchief (manager) 2012-03-13 08:48	As per Toady's post today, it's intentional for hair (and probably feathers) to reanimate: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=100851.msg3088752#msg3088752 [^] If it's impossible to hit them, that's a problem. More corroboration on that aspect would be helpful, as that's the only thing keeping this report open.

(0021446) thvaz (reporter) 2012-03-13 12:47 edited on: 2012-03-13 12:47	Do furry creatures generate a skin when butchered? Maybe this hair is just badly named, and it should be "pelt" instead - skin and fur. It wouldn't be weirder than a hollow skin at least.

(0021450) Kumquat (reporter) 2012-03-13 13:51	They generate both skin and hair, they're different material layers.

(0029787) carbohydrates (reporter) 2014-08-29 22:10 edited on: 2014-08-29 22:15	This is still an issue as of 40.10 It is definitely impossible to hit them - small enough reanimated tissues, at least. It was possible for my dwarves to kill a reanimated horse hair, very easily - but a horse head hair is impossible to hit. It appears to be unable to successfully hit dwarves. Even when the hair succeedes in a push, it doesn't have enough mass to do anything. So they are locked in combat, missing every single hit, forever. Dwarves gain a ludicrous amount of combat experience from this type of fighting. I started this reddit thread before looking for a relevant bug report; http://www.reddit.com/r/dwarffortress/comments/2ez9gc/bodypart_hair_zombies_the_eternal_battle/ [^] Here's a sample of a combat log; http://i.imgur.com/eMRPIT4.png [^] There's no way that this is the intended behavior of undead tissues.

(0029813) Agent_Irons (reporter) 2014-08-30 15:44	So it would appear that there is really just one/two? bug(s) here: the one where creatures can't damage things that are much less massive than them. (00787) The horse-shaped hair layer is butchered away, and inherits the tokens that make it raisable, just as the skin does. That seems to be intended for the skin at least and delightfully creepy either way. Then when the hairbeast is dismembered further they pass some critical threshold where they are too light to damage, which causes problems..

(0030193) Footkerchief (manager) 2014-09-14 17:41	ZzarkLinux posted saves at 0008298.

(0032299) jwoodward48df (reporter) 2015-03-01 19:08	I just had this happen to me, but eventually the yak hair died. I think it was from a war dog biting it... No, my zombies just sometimes "deanimate" after receiving a bit of damage. Weird.

(0032965) ZzarkLinux (reporter) 2015-08-16 10:52	Any update on this? Dwarf Fortress zombie-armageddon games are a unique and fun feature, so I'm surprised this hasn't changed. I stopped gaming a year ago, but this feature discourages zombie embarks; once the first un-hittable thing reanimates and aggros your dwarves then it hurts the replayability.

(0033012) carbohydrates (reporter) 2015-08-30 11:02	Yeah, I am surprised this is still unresolved, and also that it's marked as 'minor'...I mean, it isn't completely gamebreaking, if you aren't in a reanimating biome. But if you are, it is completely gamebreaking. This should be marked as 'major'. Its severity is greater than many of the other issues marked as 'major'. 0000797, pet pathing through locked doors causing lag, is marked as major. That one doesn't even break any part of the game, it just causes lag. This one completely breaks a huge, and fun, part of the game - playing near the reanimated dead. It's just impossible to do right now.

(0033019) Detros (manager) 2015-08-31 14:42	1) "severity" by itself is not used when queuing bugs for fixing, so it can be filled with what the original reporter thought was appropriate in that time 2) Currently are developers adding new features. According to devlog it seems this part may end soon and there is surely be several runs of bugfixing once this group of features is completed.

(0033738) mispy (reporter) 2015-12-10 13:13	Just encountered this bug in 0.42.02, with a necromancer-raised goblin head. Save here: http://dffd.bay12games.com/file.php?id=11448 [^]

(0036901) Toady One (administrator) 2017-11-20 14:03	I fixed a related issue and that allowed me to put down various undead hair creatures. But it's possible there are other forms. When 0.44+ drops, we can reevaluate.