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IDProjectCategoryView StatusDate SubmittedLast Update
0006042Dwarf FortressDwarf Mode -- Jobs, Militarypublic2012-06-20 13:282017-08-14 14:09
Reporterpeetaur 
Assigned To 
PrioritynormalSeveritymajorReproducibilitysometimes
StatusnewResolutionopen 
PlatformOSOS Version
Product Version0.34.11 
Target VersionFixed in Version 
Summary0006042: Military dwarves leave burrow to grab equipment
DescriptionMilitary dwarves will wander off outside where caravans died to pick up equipment. There is no simple way to control this. Also forbidding the items they want AFTER they have the job does not stop them from walking to the item before they cancel and go back. Even the "station" order, or removing them from the squad does not stop them. The only way I ever found to stop them is to close the drawbridges, which can lead to crushed dwarves, or delays in trying to rescue them by sending the rest of the squad to fight with them due to the squad being split between a closed drawbridge. (and since between 31.25 long ago and 34.08 recently, the dwarves are VERY slow to pull levers, because a far away one gets the job instead of a close one, so this is extremely unreliable at stopping the dwarf from dying.)

This would be much less major if this bug was fixed, as it is the main reason the dwarves find items outside for jobs: 0006041

Fixing this problem would be possible by one of these ideas, ordered by my preference:
a) preventing equipment outside stockpiles (or burrows) from being assigned to a squad member and never allowing them to move items to bins or drink except in designated areas (drink is not a squad related activity)
b) allowing a separate burrow selection for military dwarves
c) having military obey the burrows selected in the alerts menu for civilians (only affecting non-military orders; see below)

The "move" and "defend burrows" and other military jobs should not change, but these burrow settings or restricting to stockpiles would apply to things like "drink", "pickup equipment" (whether related to military or not), and "store item in bin". (and FYI: I don't remember this problem and "store item in bin" ever happening before 34.08, only the other two jobs, and I don't believe I've seen this problem with "store item in stockpile").
Steps To ReproduceI haven't tested this (yet) but I assume this would reliably reproduce it:

1. set civilian burrows so they are in safe areas (behind defenses), and activate it in the alerts menu
2. dump some equipment and bolts you want your dwarves to wear outside the safe burrow. unforbid and undump this equipment once it is outside your burrow.
3. forbid all other equipment matching the stuff from step 2
4. assign some squads with uniforms matching the equipment from step 2
5. wait and watch them go wander off to get it

Perhaps it only happens combined with some other bug, such as 0006041
Additional InformationThis problem probably existed since the military menu was first changed and burrows were added, back when there was the arsenal dwarf. It also existed when I last played on Windows with 31.25, and it still existed in 34.08, 34.10, and 34.11 which I have recently played in Linux.

This is major because:
1. the wagon does not come unless the fort doors are open, so therefore the doors must be open preemptively, so I am forced to make it physically possible for them to run off, trusting them to stay inside.
2. the military (without a danger room which is overly fast) will never improve and be in reasonably good health (not so many missing limbs) without this problem being fixed, as they die very frequently, like 2-4 dwarves per caravan+ambush sometimes, depending on their equipment status (eg. are they low on bolts? did the caravan die close enough that their drinks are closer than the drink stockpile?).


At some point I'll save the game and upload it with a dwarf running off to die.
TagsNo tags attached.
Attached Files

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-  Notes
(0023075)
Footkerchief (manager)
2012-06-21 06:10

 Yes, we need that save. You can upload to http://dffd.wimbli.com/ [^]
(0023076)
Micha (reporter)
2012-06-21 06:24

 If I understand this right, its has nothing to do with burrows, doesn't need a save and is easy to reproduce:

Use a station order get some mil dwarves outside. Its best if their weapons are not the same as the ones they would use as civilians.

Next release them from the station. They will drop their mil weapons and do whatever else they were going to do, now being civilians.

Now you call them up again with a new station order and see them run for the gear they last wore.

I think this happens because squads simply ignore / never seem to use the spots designated for squad or individual equipment storage. To me, that is the real problem here.
(0023089)
peetaur (reporter)
2012-06-22 12:29

 Micha, I agree that your idea of the situation would have an identical consequence... lots of dead dwarves, but as I am aware of them dropping their stuff like that, I never cancel their station order, but instead station them inside first, then cancel. But I only do this to avoid making a mess ... I didn't realize it would get them killed too.

But what causes me the most grief is when the caravans die, or when something out there is not forbidden, and they go try to pick it up, sometimes immediately when it appears (eg. a goblin kills an elf, and the elf drops a drink).

And here is a save with a dwarf drinking outside the burrow, because the drink was dropped by a dead elf caravan. In this case I had "forbid your ___ items" but "claim ___ dead" (corpses) because I was tired of immigrants leaving their animals to rot in the dining room. The result was that the bodies and wagon are not forbidden (although the wagon's contents should be based on my standing orders) and the dead elves' clothing they were wearing are forbidden.

Save:
http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=6549 [^]

Screenshots:
http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=6550 [^]
(0023097)
Micha (reporter)
2012-06-23 13:32
edited on: 2012-06-23 13:34

 Hi Peeraur, "I ... station them inside first, then cancel." Yep. There's no other way afaik, and its what i'm doing too of course .. short of not playing .. which i'm doing now cause i messed up my hand and shoulder again on the cursor-loosing-positions-between-commands-bug.

I've never seen a civilian do stuff 'outside' when i have an 'inside' burrow active. yet. but maybe others have. That's another issue though. It does no longer match the topic and it might just deserve its own entry here.

Since we're now off topic anyway, I've not bothered to look, but the cursor-loosing-positions-between-commands-thing is a bug as far as my tendons are concerned.. and the barracks not acting as personal or squad equipment storage for squads that are standing down is another. As is dwarves deciding that just because they are not actively deployed they would be expected to drop their gear.
(0036695)
Nilsou2 (reporter)
2017-08-14 14:09

 Hi, I can confirm that this bug still exist in 0.43. My military (at least my mercenary) goes to outside to pickup equipment on death but they should not as they are assigned to defend a little burrow in scheduler AND as they have restricted to the inside fortress burrow in the alert menu.

So ... don't really understand, and i guess this bug is still active.

- Issue History
Date Modified Username Field Change
2012-06-20 13:28 peetaur New Issue
2012-06-21 06:08 Footkerchief Description Updated View Revisions
2012-06-21 06:08 Footkerchief Steps to Reproduce Updated View Revisions
2012-06-21 06:09 Footkerchief Summary Military dwarves will wander off outside your burrows => Military dwarves leave burrow to grab equipment
2012-06-21 06:10 Footkerchief Tag Attached: AWAITING UPDATE
2012-06-21 06:10 Footkerchief Note Added: 0023075
2012-06-21 06:24 Micha Note Added: 0023076
2012-06-21 06:41 Telarin Issue Monitored: Telarin
2012-06-22 12:29 peetaur Note Added: 0023089
2012-06-23 13:32 Micha Note Added: 0023097
2012-06-23 13:32 Micha Note Edited: 0023097 View Revisions
2012-06-23 13:34 Micha Note Edited: 0023097 View Revisions
2012-06-23 16:07 Footkerchief Tag Detached: AWAITING UPDATE
2017-08-14 14:09 Nilsou2 Note Added: 0036695

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