0000783: Elves buy and sell products with IMPLIES_ANIMAL_KILL due to JUSTIFIED_IF_SELF_DEFENSE

(0001987)
kaosdrachen (reporter)
2010-04-08 02:47

I'm pretty sure the only stuff they objected to in the 0.2x series was anything that had to consume wood at some point during its creation process - IE, wooden anything, rock short swords (needs a wooden plank to attach the obsidian to), and clear glass anything (need pearlash, which can only be made from ash, which means burning a log).

I've sold tons and tons of leather, bone and plant fiber cloth goods to them over the years with nary an objection.

(0002068)
Jiri Petru (reporter)
2010-04-08 10:01

Not a bug then, I guess.

Strange, I thought I couldn't offer animal products to elves, and always took care not even to sell an item with animal blood spatter. Does it mean I've been needlessly complicating my game for the past few years?

(0002623)
kaefermelder (reporter)
2010-04-10 11:59

[No animal stuff] was before 0.28.181.40d. Elves were changed a lot, in the 0.28.181.40 series, I think. Anyway, nothing new basically, only wood and related was and is not tradeable. No bug.

(0002741)
Footkerchief (manager)
2010-04-11 00:22

Was it ever confirmed that the 40d behavior wasn't a bug? I'm not sure one way or the other.

(0005809)
Jiri Petru (reporter)
2010-05-01 04:48

I had noticed there's a [IMPLIES_ANIMAL_KILL] tag in the raws. I immediately thought it was for the elves to know I killed an animal. Is there possibly a different use for this tag, or does it mean the tag doesn't work?

(0005842)
Footkerchief (manager)
2010-05-01 12:26

^^^ I thought the same thing about that tag.

(0017037)
Logical2u (manager)
2011-04-03 20:30

Based on 0004441 it sounds like this might not be happening any more, or at least as much. Is there any consistent evidence to suggest it's still around?

(0017055)
BishopX (reporter)
2011-04-04 07:09
edited on: 2011-04-04 10:38

I can confirm this still occurs in .25.

(0024496)
Quietust (reporter)
2014-02-04 14:52

The reason Elves are willing to trade animal products is because their ethic response for KILL_ANIMAL is set to JUSTIFIED_IF_SELF_DEFENSE - if set to MISGUIDED, SHUN, APPALLING, PUNISH_REPRIMAND, PUNISH_SERIOUS, PUNISH_EXILE, PUNISH_CAPITAL, or UNTHINKABLE, they will refuse to trade it. The same logic is also used for KILL_PLANT for refusing to trade wooden objects (and not bringing caravan wagons).

This "bug" was likely introduced in version 0.28.181.39a with the addition of ethics.

Issue History
Date Modified	Username	Field	Change
2010-04-08 01:57	Jiri Petru	New Issue
2010-04-08 02:47	kaosdrachen	Note Added: 0001987
2010-04-08 10:01	Jiri Petru	Note Added: 0002068
2010-04-10 11:59	kaefermelder	Note Added: 0002623
2010-04-10 12:00	kaefermelder	Tag Attached: CLOSE THIS
2010-04-10 12:00	kaefermelder	Tag Attached: Not a bug
2010-04-11 00:22	Footkerchief	Note Added: 0002741
2010-04-11 11:10	Footkerchief	Issue Monitored: Footkerchief
2010-05-01 04:48	Jiri Petru	Note Added: 0005809
2010-05-01 12:26	Footkerchief	Note Added: 0005842
2010-05-01 12:26	Footkerchief	Tag Detached: CLOSE THIS
2010-05-01 12:26	Footkerchief	Tag Detached: Not a bug
2010-05-01 12:26	Footkerchief	Tag Attached: Intentional?
2010-07-12 12:03	Footkerchief	Tag Renamed	Intentional? => Intentional/Expected?
2011-04-03 20:23	Footkerchief	Relationship added	has duplicate 0003236
2011-04-03 20:23	Footkerchief	Relationship added	related to 0004441
2011-04-03 20:30	Logical2u	Note Added: 0017037
2011-04-04 07:09	BishopX	Note Added: 0017055
2011-04-04 09:48	Footkerchief	Relationship replaced	has duplicate 0004441
2011-04-04 09:51	Footkerchief	Tag Detached: Intentional/Expected?
2011-04-04 09:52	Footkerchief	Relationship added	related to 0002545
2011-04-04 10:38	BishopX	Note Edited: 0017055	View Revisions
2014-02-04 14:52	Quietust	Note Added: 0024496
2014-02-05 10:38	Footkerchief	Summary	Elves happily trade leather, bone crafts, etc. => Elves buy and sell products with IMPLIES_ANIMAL_KILL due to JUSTIFIED_IF_SELF_DEFENSE
2014-02-05 10:38	Footkerchief	Assigned To	=> Footkerchief
2014-02-05 10:38	Footkerchief	Status	new => acknowledged
2018-04-13 13:09	Huntthetroll	Issue Monitored: Huntthetroll

Notes
(0001987) kaosdrachen (reporter) 2010-04-08 02:47	I'm pretty sure the only stuff they objected to in the 0.2x series was anything that had to consume wood at some point during its creation process - IE, wooden anything, rock short swords (needs a wooden plank to attach the obsidian to), and clear glass anything (need pearlash, which can only be made from ash, which means burning a log). I've sold tons and tons of leather, bone and plant fiber cloth goods to them over the years with nary an objection.

(0002068) Jiri Petru (reporter) 2010-04-08 10:01	Not a bug then, I guess. Strange, I thought I couldn't offer animal products to elves, and always took care not even to sell an item with animal blood spatter. Does it mean I've been needlessly complicating my game for the past few years?

(0002623) kaefermelder (reporter) 2010-04-10 11:59	[No animal stuff] was before 0.28.181.40d. Elves were changed a lot, in the 0.28.181.40 series, I think. Anyway, nothing new basically, only wood and related was and is not tradeable. No bug.

(0002741) Footkerchief (manager) 2010-04-11 00:22	Was it ever confirmed that the 40d behavior wasn't a bug? I'm not sure one way or the other.

(0005809) Jiri Petru (reporter) 2010-05-01 04:48	I had noticed there's a [IMPLIES_ANIMAL_KILL] tag in the raws. I immediately thought it was for the elves to know I killed an animal. Is there possibly a different use for this tag, or does it mean the tag doesn't work?

(0005842) Footkerchief (manager) 2010-05-01 12:26	^^^ I thought the same thing about that tag.

(0017037) Logical2u (manager) 2011-04-03 20:30	Based on 0004441 it sounds like this might not be happening any more, or at least as much. Is there any consistent evidence to suggest it's still around?

(0017055) BishopX (reporter) 2011-04-04 07:09 edited on: 2011-04-04 10:38	I can confirm this still occurs in .25.

(0024496) Quietust (reporter) 2014-02-04 14:52	The reason Elves are willing to trade animal products is because their ethic response for KILL_ANIMAL is set to JUSTIFIED_IF_SELF_DEFENSE - if set to MISGUIDED, SHUN, APPALLING, PUNISH_REPRIMAND, PUNISH_SERIOUS, PUNISH_EXILE, PUNISH_CAPITAL, or UNTHINKABLE, they will refuse to trade it. The same logic is also used for KILL_PLANT for refusing to trade wooden objects (and not bringing caravan wagons). This "bug" was likely introduced in version 0.28.181.39a with the addition of ethics.