0010581: Trees yielding no wood never show up

Notes
(0038398) chaosvolt (reporter) 2018-05-29 12:42 edited on: 2018-05-29 12:45	On the one hand, dfhack REEEE. On the other hand I replicated this issue via raw-only methods. My recent modding shenanigans entailed a non-wood tree being the only tree in a given region and they refused to spawn. Strangely, there might be something that can work around this, as evidently ZM has had success with non-wood trees. Maybe both DFHack and my flavor of fuckery are failing at this. Alternatively, it could be that ZM's attempt at it does something in the raws that vanilla woodless trees don't.

(0038399) lethosor (manager) 2018-05-29 14:16	We cannot accept DFHack-only bug reports here. If you can get it to reproduce with modded raws (or adjusted vanilla raws), uploading the save after worldgen but without an active fortress (i.e. to allow embarking quickly) would help.

(0038404) Loci (manager) 2018-05-29 16:20	I disagree that this is a DFHack issue. Here's a trivial test world with all surface trees except abaca and banana removed: http://dffd.bay12games.com/file.php?id=13793 [^] Modding either abaca or banana trees to produce wood will cause them to appear in tropical biomes.

(0038405) lethosor (manager) 2018-05-29 16:31	Yeah, I'm not saying it's a DFHack issue. I'm saying that it's hard to prove it's not a DFHack issue from something like this: "Through the use of a DFHack script I removed all trees from that biome except for abaca and banana and embarked." It's possible (in general, not here) that a method used in DFHack fails to take into account things that vanilla DF does take into account, so "I caused an issue using DFHack" on its own doesn't belong here. Given chaosvolt's findings, this specific issue does, though. Thanks for taking the time to produce a save!

(0038407) PatrikLundell (reporter) 2018-05-30 03:37	It can be pointed out that I didn't cause the issue using DFHack, but used DFHack to remove the chaff when investigating what I had observed, as it's nearly impossible to see that something doesn't show up when it could be the RNG (consistently) playing tricks on you. Many thanks to Loci for showing the issue in an intelligent DFHack free way. It would be useful to know what chaosvolt's reference to ZM's work is.

(0038409) lethosor (manager) 2018-05-30 09:02	For all I knew, removing tree types with DFHack could fail to update DF's state in some other way, preventing the remaining trees from showing up at all, while they could show up in vanilla if every other type was removed from the raws. (Again, this is just hypothetical, but it's hard to tell what the side effects of a DFHack method can be.)

(0039037) FantasticDorf (reporter) 2018-12-22 01:22	Trees will also not reproduce if they don't have a seed growth, bananas have a seed growth within its fruit, and abaca's have a not quite clear but defined seed growth somewhere potentially within its leaves or flowers (unclear to me at the moment) Glumprongs suffer a problem in which as a singular tree type of evil biomes, they are spawned in but never create saplings meaning that they are sterile and will never re-grow, civs with the relevant [USE_EVIL_WOOD] tags won't be able to access them until renewability is ensured which i've managed to recreate in my modding by making them drop simple nut growths. So in line with issue report, [HEAVY_BRANCH_DENSITY:0],[BRANCH_DENSITY:0],[MAX_TRUNK_HEIGHT:5],[TRUNK_BRANCHING:0] in which both share no branches and also no wood might constitute that since both the growths are attached to the trunk, without the wood there the problem arises (as a proposed method experiment open to try)

(0039038) PatrikLundell (reporter) 2018-12-22 01:37	My experience does not match FantasticDorf's description, as I have no problem to get Glumprong (unmodified, but a DFHack script ensures Glumprong exists in the biome) to produce saplings in my evil biome (except, of course, when everything growing there is dead). I've had wood cutters harvest Glumprong regularly over decades.

(0039039) FantasticDorf (reporter) 2018-12-22 12:12	Using DFhack to spawn saplings doesn't denote anything regarding causation with the OP's tree's to not spread or otherwise generate. My note was to illustrate the effects the individual growth parts had and the reliance on them for trees to be renewable in its biome range. With nothing to breed with (due to faulty trunk not having wood or other reason) in a busy jungle full of other trees placing saplings, it might just not appear at rough odds 1/100 depending on how wide/small the biome is and where you looked. Typically if you can find some of them, they will be very tall and very old depending on world-age rather than young newly grown ones. I think i do recall seeing some on 44.12 infrequently.

(0039041) PatrikLundell (reporter) 2018-12-23 01:42	I do not use DFHack to SPAWN saplings: I use DFHack to ensure Glumprong is among the plants that are available to the biome (if it's not, you won't get any old ones either) in case DF RNG caused it to be excluded. Any saplings appearing appear according to the normal DF rules for plant growth (and I didn't have any problem with Glumprong regrowth [when present] before making sure it was present either).

Issue History
Date Modified	Username	Field	Change
2018-02-18 02:49	PatrikLundell	New Issue
2018-05-29 12:42	chaosvolt	Note Added: 0038398
2018-05-29 12:45	chaosvolt	Note Edited: 0038398	View Revisions
2018-05-29 14:16	lethosor	Note Added: 0038399
2018-05-29 16:20	Loci	Note Added: 0038404
2018-05-29 16:20	Loci	Assigned To	=> Loci
2018-05-29 16:20	Loci	Status	new => confirmed
2018-05-29 16:31	lethosor	Note Added: 0038405
2018-05-30 03:37	PatrikLundell	Note Added: 0038407
2018-05-30 09:02	lethosor	Note Added: 0038409
2018-11-12 12:31	Loci	Relationship added	related to 0010954
2018-12-22 01:22	FantasticDorf	Note Added: 0039037
2018-12-22 01:37	PatrikLundell	Note Added: 0039038
2018-12-22 12:12	FantasticDorf	Note Added: 0039039
2018-12-23 01:42	PatrikLundell	Note Added: 0039041