0001279: Random creature generator occasionally reuses species names

(0003988)
SirPenguin (reporter)
2010-04-17 13:47

Unless I am horribly misunderstanding, I think you might be confusing creature type with creature name. All creatures have names which is independent from their creature type. So you could have a million "mites", but you'd have "Timad, a mite" and "Urist, a mite", etc.

The problem here might be that text exporting exports the type, not the name

(0003989)
Knight Otu (manager)
2010-04-17 13:56

I think you're misunderstanding. I'm talking about populations, not people. At the bottom of the export file I mentioned, you find something like this:

Underground Animal Populations (Including Undead)
    46135 gorlaks
    46098 trolls
    ...
    16757 magma men
    Unnumbered ape devils
    Unnumbered sauropod devils
    Unnumbered one-eyed fiends
    Unnumbered monsters of brine
    Unnumbered tortoise devils
    Unnumbered brass fiends
    Unnumbered boiling specters
    Unnumbered scorching banshees
    Unnumbered elk monsters
    Unnumbered leech demons
    Unnumbered dimetrodon devils
    Unnumbered gray haunts
    Unnumbered steam wraiths
    Unnumbered water fiends
    Unnumbered lizard fiends
    Unnumbered brine spirits
    Unnumbered scorching fiends
    Unnumbered tortoise monsters
    Unnumbered chincilla monsters
    Unnumbered giraffe demons
    Unnumbered brine phantoms
    Unnumbered olive monsters
    Unnumbered monsters of soot
    59786 cave spiders
    ...

This list doesn't contain any repeated type names, but it randomly might (or almost certainly will, if you generate a world with many demon types).

(0003994)
Footkerchief (manager)
2010-04-17 14:57
edited on: 2010-04-17 15:00

"This list doesn't contain any repeated type names, but it randomly might..."

Have you verified that it happens? I read everything you wrote and I really can't tell whether you're speculating or have actually seen it happen. If it does happen, it would be helpful to have more information about the specific cases (at a minimum, the creature type name that got duplicated).

(0003997)
Knight Otu (manager)
2010-04-17 15:11

I've seen it happen, yes. I'm not sure how likely it is with the default values, though. In a test case with 1000 demon types, I got triplicates, even. I've since deleted that one, but I just generated a quick test with 50 demon types, and got two duplicates (amber fiends x2 and horned demons x2). Population list:
    16696 fire men
    Unnumbered clear brutes
    Unnumbered panther devils
    Unnumbered flash fiends
    Unnumbered horned demons
    Unnumbered brutes of flame
    Unnumbered steam devils
    Unnumbered snail fiends
    Unnumbered stegosaurid brutes
    Unnumbered slush haunts
    Unnumbered wraiths of steam
    Unnumbered buffalo fiends
    Unnumbered glass devils
    Unnumbered amber fiends
    Unnumbered winged demons
    Unnumbered rove beetle brutes
    Unnumbered haunts of flame
    Unnumbered hornbill brutes
    Unnumbered ghosts of steam
    Unnumbered snow banshees
    Unnumbered spirits of steam
    Unnumbered assassin bug demons
    Unnumbered scarab beetle devils
    Unnumbered ash specters
    Unnumbered skinless demons
    Unnumbered three-eyed demons
    Unnumbered dimetrodon devils
    Unnumbered boiling brutes
    Unnumbered horned demons
    Unnumbered gray fiends
    Unnumbered sauropod devils
    Unnumbered phantoms of flame
    Unnumbered hyena monsters
    Unnumbered kestrel monsters
    Unnumbered amber fiends
    Unnumbered raccoon brutes
    Unnumbered brine brutes
    Unnumbered snail brutes
    Unnumbered pterosaur monsters
    Unnumbered monkey fiends
    Unnumbered loris devils
    Unnumbered lemur demons
    Unnumbered jay monsters
    57823 bats

Gen info:
Created in DF v0.31.03.

[WORLD_GEN]
    [TITLE:MEDIUM REGION]
    [SEED:4151018244]
    [HISTORY_SEED:3779356432]
    [NAME_SEED:3694733214]
    [CREATURE_SEED:710580734]
    [DIM:129:129]
    [EMBARK_POINTS:1274]
    [END_YEAR:2]
    [BEAST_END_YEAR:200:80]
    [REVEAL_ALL_HISTORY:1]
    [CULL_HISTORICAL_FIGURES:0]
    [ELEVATION:1:400:401:401]
    [RAINFALL:0:100:200:200]
    [TEMPERATURE:25:75:200:200]
    [DRAINAGE:0:100:200:200]
    [VOLCANISM:0:100:200:200]
    [SAVAGERY:0:100:200:200]
    [ELEVATION_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
    [RAIN_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
    [DRAINAGE_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
    [TEMPERATURE_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
    [SAVAGERY_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
    [VOLCANISM_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1]
    [TITAN_NUMBER:9]
    [TITAN_ATTACK_TRIGGER:80:0:100000]
    [DEMON_NUMBER:50]
    [GOOD_SQ_COUNTS:25:251:503]
    [EVIL_SQ_COUNTS:25:251:503]
    [PEAK_NUMBER_MIN:12]
    [PARTIAL_OCEAN_EDGE_MIN:1]
    [COMPLETE_OCEAN_EDGE_MIN:0]
    [VOLCANO_MIN:3]
    [REGION_COUNTS:SWAMP:260:1:1]
    [REGION_COUNTS:DESERT:260:1:1]
    [REGION_COUNTS:FOREST:1040:3:3]
    [REGION_COUNTS:MOUNTAINS:2080:2:2]
    [REGION_COUNTS:OCEAN:2080:1:1]
    [REGION_COUNTS:GLACIER:0:0:0]
    [REGION_COUNTS:TUNDRA:0:0:0]
    [REGION_COUNTS:GRASSLAND:2080:3:3]
    [REGION_COUNTS:HILLS:2080:3:3]
    [EROSION_CYCLE_COUNT:250]
    [RIVER_MINS:100:100]
    [PERIODICALLY_ERODE_EXTREMES:1]
    [OROGRAPHIC_PRECIPITATION:1]
    [SUBREGION_MAX:2750]
    [CAVERN_LAYER_COUNT:3]
    [CAVERN_LAYER_OPENNESS_MIN:0]
    [CAVERN_LAYER_OPENNESS_MAX:100]
    [CAVERN_LAYER_PASSAGE_DENSITY_MIN:0]
    [CAVERN_LAYER_PASSAGE_DENSITY_MAX:100]
    [CAVERN_LAYER_WATER_MIN:0]
    [CAVERN_LAYER_WATER_MAX:100]
    [HAVE_BOTTOM_LAYER_1:1]
    [HAVE_BOTTOM_LAYER_2:1]
    [LEVELS_ABOVE_GROUND:15]
    [LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_1:5]
    [LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_2:1]
    [LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_3:1]
    [LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_4:1]
    [LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_5:2]
    [LEVELS_AT_BOTTOM:1]
    [CAVE_MIN_SIZE:5]
    [CAVE_MIN_SIZE:5]
    [CAVE_MAX_SIZE:25]
    [MOUNTAIN_CAVE_MIN:25]
    [NON_MOUNTAIN_CAVE_MIN:50]
    [ALL_CAVES_VISIBLE:0]
    [SHOW_EMBARK_TUNNEL:2]
    [TOTAL_CIV_NUMBER:20]
    [TOTAL_CIV_POPULATION:20000]
    [PLAYABLE_CIVILIZATION_REQUIRED:1]
    [ELEVATION_RANGES:2080:4160:2080]
    [RAIN_RANGES:2080:4160:2080]
    [DRAINAGE_RANGES:2080:4160:2080]
    [SAVAGERY_RANGES:2080:4160:2080]
    [VOLCANISM_RANGES:2080:4160:2080]

(0003998)
Footkerchief (manager)
2010-04-17 15:12

Ah, okay, thanks.

(0030785)
JayJayForce (reporter)
2014-10-29 13:21

Can confirm is still present in 0.40.14

My results:

    7909 magma men
    12182 magma crabs
    Unnumbered tortoise fiends
    Unnumbered leech devils
    Unnumbered white wraiths
    Unnumbered tick devils
    Unnumbered demons of shadow
    Unnumbered phantoms of embers
    Unnumbered earthworm monsters
    Unnumbered lavender blush fiends
    Unnumbered winged brutes
    Unnumbered winged brutes
    Unnumbered raccoon brutes
    Unnumbered earthworm monsters
    Unnumbered white devils
    Unnumbered gray brutes
    Unnumbered leech devils
    Unnumbered dung beetle brutes
    Unnumbered shade phantoms
    Unnumbered beaver demons
    Unnumbered steam spirits
    Unnumbered sterling silver brutes
    Unnumbered sludge fiends
    Unnumbered phantoms of steam
    Unnumbered theropod monsters
    Unnumbered mammoth devils
    183431 cave spiders
    186838 bats

I have two cases of winged brutes and two leech devils

(0036727)
grand sage (reporter)
2017-09-04 13:56

Technically, It is entirely possible for two different species to be named the same, either because they were named independently of each other or due to stupidity/similarity. Many different species of plants have the same trivial names, because people cant tell them from each other. So not sure this is a bug at all.

Issue History
Date Modified	Username	Field	Change
2010-04-17 13:38	Knight Otu	New Issue
2010-04-17 13:47	SirPenguin	Note Added: 0003988
2010-04-17 13:56	Knight Otu	Note Added: 0003989
2010-04-17 14:57	Footkerchief	Note Added: 0003994
2010-04-17 14:57	Footkerchief	Note Edited: 0003994	View Revisions
2010-04-17 15:00	Footkerchief	Note Edited: 0003994	View Revisions
2010-04-17 15:03	Footkerchief	Issue Monitored: Footkerchief
2010-04-17 15:11	Knight Otu	Note Added: 0003997
2010-04-17 15:12	Footkerchief	Note Added: 0003998
2010-04-17 15:13	Footkerchief	Summary	Random creature types have exact same names => Random creature generator occasionaly reuses species names
2010-04-17 15:14	Footkerchief	Summary	Random creature generator occasionaly reuses species names => Random creature generator occasionally reuses species names
2010-04-29 09:00	Footkerchief	Relationship added	parent of 0001625
2014-10-29 13:21	JayJayForce	Note Added: 0030785
2014-10-29 17:02	Footkerchief	Assigned To	=> Footkerchief
2014-10-29 17:02	Footkerchief	Status	new => confirmed
2017-09-04 13:56	grand sage	Note Added: 0036727
2018-04-16 17:00	Huntthetroll	Issue Monitored: Huntthetroll

Notes
(0003988) SirPenguin (reporter) 2010-04-17 13:47	Unless I am horribly misunderstanding, I think you might be confusing creature type with creature name. All creatures have names which is independent from their creature type. So you could have a million "mites", but you'd have "Timad, a mite" and "Urist, a mite", etc. The problem here might be that text exporting exports the type, not the name

(0003989) Knight Otu (manager) 2010-04-17 13:56	I think you're misunderstanding. I'm talking about populations, not people. At the bottom of the export file I mentioned, you find something like this: Underground Animal Populations (Including Undead) 46135 gorlaks 46098 trolls ... 16757 magma men Unnumbered ape devils Unnumbered sauropod devils Unnumbered one-eyed fiends Unnumbered monsters of brine Unnumbered tortoise devils Unnumbered brass fiends Unnumbered boiling specters Unnumbered scorching banshees Unnumbered elk monsters Unnumbered leech demons Unnumbered dimetrodon devils Unnumbered gray haunts Unnumbered steam wraiths Unnumbered water fiends Unnumbered lizard fiends Unnumbered brine spirits Unnumbered scorching fiends Unnumbered tortoise monsters Unnumbered chincilla monsters Unnumbered giraffe demons Unnumbered brine phantoms Unnumbered olive monsters Unnumbered monsters of soot 59786 cave spiders ... This list doesn't contain any repeated type names, but it randomly might (or almost certainly will, if you generate a world with many demon types).

(0003994) Footkerchief (manager) 2010-04-17 14:57 edited on: 2010-04-17 15:00	"This list doesn't contain any repeated type names, but it randomly might..." Have you verified that it happens? I read everything you wrote and I really can't tell whether you're speculating or have actually seen it happen. If it does happen, it would be helpful to have more information about the specific cases (at a minimum, the creature type name that got duplicated).

(0003997) Knight Otu (manager) 2010-04-17 15:11	I've seen it happen, yes. I'm not sure how likely it is with the default values, though. In a test case with 1000 demon types, I got triplicates, even. I've since deleted that one, but I just generated a quick test with 50 demon types, and got two duplicates (amber fiends x2 and horned demons x2). Population list: 16696 fire men Unnumbered clear brutes Unnumbered panther devils Unnumbered flash fiends Unnumbered horned demons Unnumbered brutes of flame Unnumbered steam devils Unnumbered snail fiends Unnumbered stegosaurid brutes Unnumbered slush haunts Unnumbered wraiths of steam Unnumbered buffalo fiends Unnumbered glass devils Unnumbered amber fiends Unnumbered winged demons Unnumbered rove beetle brutes Unnumbered haunts of flame Unnumbered hornbill brutes Unnumbered ghosts of steam Unnumbered snow banshees Unnumbered spirits of steam Unnumbered assassin bug demons Unnumbered scarab beetle devils Unnumbered ash specters Unnumbered skinless demons Unnumbered three-eyed demons Unnumbered dimetrodon devils Unnumbered boiling brutes Unnumbered horned demons Unnumbered gray fiends Unnumbered sauropod devils Unnumbered phantoms of flame Unnumbered hyena monsters Unnumbered kestrel monsters Unnumbered amber fiends Unnumbered raccoon brutes Unnumbered brine brutes Unnumbered snail brutes Unnumbered pterosaur monsters Unnumbered monkey fiends Unnumbered loris devils Unnumbered lemur demons Unnumbered jay monsters 57823 bats Gen info: Created in DF v0.31.03. [WORLD_GEN] [TITLE:MEDIUM REGION] [SEED:4151018244] [HISTORY_SEED:3779356432] [NAME_SEED:3694733214] [CREATURE_SEED:710580734] [DIM:129:129] [EMBARK_POINTS:1274] [END_YEAR:2] [BEAST_END_YEAR:200:80] [REVEAL_ALL_HISTORY:1] [CULL_HISTORICAL_FIGURES:0] [ELEVATION:1:400:401:401] [RAINFALL:0:100:200:200] [TEMPERATURE:25:75:200:200] [DRAINAGE:0:100:200:200] [VOLCANISM:0:100:200:200] [SAVAGERY:0:100:200:200] [ELEVATION_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1] [RAIN_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1] [DRAINAGE_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1] [TEMPERATURE_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1] [SAVAGERY_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1] [VOLCANISM_FREQUENCY:1:1:1:1:1:1] [TITAN_NUMBER:9] [TITAN_ATTACK_TRIGGER:80:0:100000] [DEMON_NUMBER:50] [GOOD_SQ_COUNTS:25:251:503] [EVIL_SQ_COUNTS:25:251:503] [PEAK_NUMBER_MIN:12] [PARTIAL_OCEAN_EDGE_MIN:1] [COMPLETE_OCEAN_EDGE_MIN:0] [VOLCANO_MIN:3] [REGION_COUNTS:SWAMP:260:1:1] [REGION_COUNTS:DESERT:260:1:1] [REGION_COUNTS:FOREST:1040:3:3] [REGION_COUNTS:MOUNTAINS:2080:2:2] [REGION_COUNTS:OCEAN:2080:1:1] [REGION_COUNTS:GLACIER:0:0:0] [REGION_COUNTS:TUNDRA:0:0:0] [REGION_COUNTS:GRASSLAND:2080:3:3] [REGION_COUNTS:HILLS:2080:3:3] [EROSION_CYCLE_COUNT:250] [RIVER_MINS:100:100] [PERIODICALLY_ERODE_EXTREMES:1] [OROGRAPHIC_PRECIPITATION:1] [SUBREGION_MAX:2750] [CAVERN_LAYER_COUNT:3] [CAVERN_LAYER_OPENNESS_MIN:0] [CAVERN_LAYER_OPENNESS_MAX:100] [CAVERN_LAYER_PASSAGE_DENSITY_MIN:0] [CAVERN_LAYER_PASSAGE_DENSITY_MAX:100] [CAVERN_LAYER_WATER_MIN:0] [CAVERN_LAYER_WATER_MAX:100] [HAVE_BOTTOM_LAYER_1:1] [HAVE_BOTTOM_LAYER_2:1] [LEVELS_ABOVE_GROUND:15] [LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_1:5] [LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_2:1] [LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_3:1] [LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_4:1] [LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_5:2] [LEVELS_AT_BOTTOM:1] [CAVE_MIN_SIZE:5] [CAVE_MIN_SIZE:5] [CAVE_MAX_SIZE:25] [MOUNTAIN_CAVE_MIN:25] [NON_MOUNTAIN_CAVE_MIN:50] [ALL_CAVES_VISIBLE:0] [SHOW_EMBARK_TUNNEL:2] [TOTAL_CIV_NUMBER:20] [TOTAL_CIV_POPULATION:20000] [PLAYABLE_CIVILIZATION_REQUIRED:1] [ELEVATION_RANGES:2080:4160:2080] [RAIN_RANGES:2080:4160:2080] [DRAINAGE_RANGES:2080:4160:2080] [SAVAGERY_RANGES:2080:4160:2080] [VOLCANISM_RANGES:2080:4160:2080]

(0003998) Footkerchief (manager) 2010-04-17 15:12	Ah, okay, thanks.

(0030785) JayJayForce (reporter) 2014-10-29 13:21	Can confirm is still present in 0.40.14 My results: 7909 magma men 12182 magma crabs Unnumbered tortoise fiends Unnumbered leech devils Unnumbered white wraiths Unnumbered tick devils Unnumbered demons of shadow Unnumbered phantoms of embers Unnumbered earthworm monsters Unnumbered lavender blush fiends Unnumbered winged brutes Unnumbered winged brutes Unnumbered raccoon brutes Unnumbered earthworm monsters Unnumbered white devils Unnumbered gray brutes Unnumbered leech devils Unnumbered dung beetle brutes Unnumbered shade phantoms Unnumbered beaver demons Unnumbered steam spirits Unnumbered sterling silver brutes Unnumbered sludge fiends Unnumbered phantoms of steam Unnumbered theropod monsters Unnumbered mammoth devils 183431 cave spiders 186838 bats I have two cases of winged brutes and two leech devils

(0036727) grand sage (reporter) 2017-09-04 13:56	Technically, It is entirely possible for two different species to be named the same, either because they were named independently of each other or due to stupidity/similarity. Many different species of plants have the same trivial names, because people cant tell them from each other. So not sure this is a bug at all.