0000168: Doctor repeatedly tries and fails to suture wounds that have already healed

(0000297)
garanis (reporter)
2010-04-02 14:47

In the same fortress I have a wounded peasant who keeps trying to get a drink and cancelling because he's unconscious, another wounded dwarf who has a doctor come every five minutes to try and suture him, only to forget what he's doing and walk away, and another wounded dwarf who has surgeries performed repeatedly for days, an infection, and no improvement in his condition post surgery. Think human Health Care is bad? Try living in Twistseal...

(0000463)
Arni (reporter)
2010-04-03 02:29

Got the same problem with the sutures. As well as wounds being first dressed and then cleaned... My medical dorfs are now adept suturers... but still failing in mending the wounded dorfs...

(0000564)
Footkerchief (manager)
2010-04-03 10:03

This seems to happen because the wound they're trying to suture has already healed on its own.

(0000609)
toybasher (reporter)
2010-04-03 11:51

I had a stonecrafter who had a compound fracture on his finger from a beserk dwarf. The doctor cleaned him and began surgery. Nothing owuld happen and the doctor would stand on him with his job bieng "surgery" after a while the doctor or patient would get too hungry or tired to continue and would wake up for a bite to eat or some booze, only to return and get operated on again and this would keep happening untill he died of thirst

(0000611)
garanis (reporter)
2010-04-03 11:56

So basically the wound is healing on it's own and the patient status is not getting updated properly...

(0001986)
flogakid (reporter)
2010-04-08 02:35

same problem here. one of my dwarves is bedridden and seems to need suturing, but the doctor keeps failing to apply it. hes been bedridden for over a year. the wounds still seem to be there though.

(0002014)
Greenbane (reporter)
2010-04-08 06:52

I'll add that, in my experience, natural healing is stopped during medical procedures. I have a lightly-wounded dwarf who's been getting wound-dressing for at least three years now, and:

- As mentioned in 0000474, the dressing's never completed.
- He hasn't healed naturally at all in those three years, and he just has a yellow injury and a dark yellow one.

Would that second factor warrant a new bug report?

(0003085)
Footkerchief (manager)
2010-04-12 10:50
edited on: 2010-04-12 10:50

Greenbane: if you have a save where a dwarf's natural healing doesn't seem to work, yeah, that'd probably warrant its own report.

Workaround the main issue in this report: according to Toybasher (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=1049#c3072 [^]), causing a cave-in next to the patient's bed will reset the diagnosis process so that they stop trying to treat healed wounds. Haven't tested that myself though.

(0003086)
axus (reporter)
2010-04-12 10:57

It's not super unrealistic, a nice thing would be for the doctor to order a new diagnosis if his procedure couldn't complete.

(0003088)
smjjames (reporter)
2010-04-12 11:05

@Footkerchief: Sounds like an extreme way to do it, with its own issues.

(0003489)
Orkel2 (reporter)
2010-04-14 09:30

I have this too, makes the game unplayable as wounded dwarves are as good as dead because the doctors never finish healing them.

(0003528)
garanis (reporter)
2010-04-14 11:40

It doesn't really make the game unplayable for me, but I have been making all of my fortresses impenetrable as a result. It is quite frustrating to have a legendary wrestler/fighter get a broken foot and never heal properly. I also have two dwarves right now who are missing a foot. It seems like it would be a simple proposition to slap a crutch on them and send them off to the mines to live out the rest of their miserable existences, but no, they just lay in bed for years.

(0003715)
axus (reporter)
2010-04-15 10:24
edited on: 2010-04-15 10:25

Hey, here's a save exhibiting some bad hospital behavior.
First problem is the dwarf with the yellow arm who keeps getting used for suture practice. The second problem is a very badly injured miner who can't even get a diagnosis. .03 of course!

http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=2116 [^]

(0003718)
toybasher (reporter)
2010-04-15 10:27

footkercheif, I havnt even tested the cave in method but I guess it might work, I read this on the wiki and on the forum once I think.

(0003767)
Malicus (reporter)
2010-04-15 16:10
edited on: 2010-04-15 16:10

A barely-wounded (now a scar) dwarf keeps requesting wound dressing, in a seemingly related issue. I tried the cave-in workaround, and it didn't work (unless the dwarf got injured from slamming into something, that is). There are probably less severe ways to injure a dwarf, if that is the intent.

(0003843)
toybasher (reporter)
2010-04-16 07:12
edited on: 2010-04-16 07:12

Well You could just use traps, but You cant place them under beds, so the only way to do it is to wait for the dorf to get hungry or thirsty mid suergery and as he gets out of bed set off the trap.

(0003915)
Malicus (reporter)
2010-04-16 15:40

Actually, no. Traps ARE the answer, it seems, but not the way you think. Make your only hospital the one tile on a stonefall trap. The dwarf who needs to rest will go there, rest, then get hit by the stone due to falling unconscious on the trap, and stonefall traps don't cause much injury now. That dwarf is now actually being treated.

(0003968)
Toady One (administrator)
2010-04-17 05:15

This one should be fixed for 0.31.04.

Issue History
Date Modified	Username	Field	Change
2010-04-02 12:46	garanis	New Issue
2010-04-02 14:47	garanis	Note Added: 0000297
2010-04-02 18:44	Todestool	Tag Attached: healthcare
2010-04-03 02:29	Arni	Note Added: 0000463
2010-04-03 10:03	Footkerchief	Note Added: 0000564
2010-04-03 11:51	toybasher	Note Added: 0000609
2010-04-03 11:56	garanis	Note Added: 0000611
2010-04-05 00:18	Footkerchief	Relationship added	has duplicate 0000427
2010-04-05 11:55	Footkerchief	Relationship added	related to 0000318
2010-04-05 11:55	Footkerchief	Relationship added	parent of 0000474
2010-04-06 13:42	Footkerchief	Relationship replaced	parent of 0000318
2010-04-06 13:43	Footkerchief	Sticky Issue	No => Yes
2010-04-06 14:44	Symmetry	Issue Monitored: Symmetry
2010-04-06 22:46	Footkerchief	Summary	Suture job never changes patient status => Doctor repeatedly tries and fails to suture wounds that have already healed
2010-04-08 02:35	flogakid	Note Added: 0001986
2010-04-08 06:52	Greenbane	Note Added: 0002014
2010-04-08 17:32	bloodystump	Issue Monitored: bloodystump
2010-04-09 00:02	flashzom	Issue Monitored: flashzom
2010-04-09 04:06	Khym Chanur	Issue Monitored: Khym Chanur
2010-04-09 08:57	jarvoll	Issue Monitored: jarvoll
2010-04-09 21:41	Iggyboo	Issue Monitored: Iggyboo
2010-04-12 00:39	Shadowlord	Issue Monitored: Shadowlord
2010-04-12 10:50	Footkerchief	Note Added: 0003085
2010-04-12 10:50	Footkerchief	Note Edited: 0003085	View Revisions
2010-04-12 10:51	Footkerchief	Relationship added	has duplicate 0001049
2010-04-12 10:57	axus	Note Added: 0003086
2010-04-12 11:05	smjjames	Note Added: 0003088
2010-04-12 18:42	TKTom	Issue Monitored: TKTom
2010-04-14 09:30	Orkel2	Note Added: 0003489
2010-04-14 09:34	Phydaux	Issue Monitored: Phydaux
2010-04-14 11:40	garanis	Note Added: 0003528
2010-04-14 15:28	Syke	Issue Monitored: Syke
2010-04-14 16:15	Tomato	Issue Monitored: Tomato
2010-04-15 10:24	axus	Note Added: 0003715
2010-04-15 10:25	axus	Note Edited: 0003715	View Revisions
2010-04-15 10:27	toybasher	Note Added: 0003718
2010-04-15 16:10	Malicus	Note Added: 0003767
2010-04-15 16:10	Malicus	Note Edited: 0003767	View Revisions
2010-04-16 07:12	toybasher	Note Added: 0003843
2010-04-16 07:12	toybasher	Note Edited: 0003843	View Revisions
2010-04-16 13:29	Footkerchief	Relationship added	parent of 0001244
2010-04-16 15:40	Malicus	Note Added: 0003915
2010-04-17 05:07	Toady One	Relationship deleted	parent of 0001244
2010-04-17 05:07	Toady One	Relationship deleted	parent of 0000318
2010-04-17 05:15	Toady One	Note Added: 0003968
2010-04-17 05:15	Toady One	Status	new => resolved
2010-04-17 05:15	Toady One	Fixed in Version	=> 0.31.04
2010-04-17 05:15	Toady One	Resolution	open => fixed
2010-04-17 05:15	Toady One	Assigned To	=> Toady One
2010-04-17 06:49	bloodystump	Issue End Monitor: bloodystump
2010-04-17 18:03	Khym Chanur	Issue End Monitor: Khym Chanur
2010-04-18 11:24	Shadowlord	Issue End Monitor: Shadowlord
2010-04-29 14:22	Footkerchief	Relationship added	parent of 0001570
2010-06-02 13:07	Footkerchief	Sticky Issue	Yes => No
2010-06-09 06:45	Toady One	Status	resolved => closed
2011-03-17 07:30	Footkerchief	Relationship replaced	related to 0001570

Notes
(0000297) garanis (reporter) 2010-04-02 14:47	In the same fortress I have a wounded peasant who keeps trying to get a drink and cancelling because he's unconscious, another wounded dwarf who has a doctor come every five minutes to try and suture him, only to forget what he's doing and walk away, and another wounded dwarf who has surgeries performed repeatedly for days, an infection, and no improvement in his condition post surgery. Think human Health Care is bad? Try living in Twistseal...

(0000463) Arni (reporter) 2010-04-03 02:29	Got the same problem with the sutures. As well as wounds being first dressed and then cleaned... My medical dorfs are now adept suturers... but still failing in mending the wounded dorfs...

(0000564) Footkerchief (manager) 2010-04-03 10:03	This seems to happen because the wound they're trying to suture has already healed on its own.

(0000609) toybasher (reporter) 2010-04-03 11:51	I had a stonecrafter who had a compound fracture on his finger from a beserk dwarf. The doctor cleaned him and began surgery. Nothing owuld happen and the doctor would stand on him with his job bieng "surgery" after a while the doctor or patient would get too hungry or tired to continue and would wake up for a bite to eat or some booze, only to return and get operated on again and this would keep happening untill he died of thirst

(0000611) garanis (reporter) 2010-04-03 11:56	So basically the wound is healing on it's own and the patient status is not getting updated properly...

(0001986) flogakid (reporter) 2010-04-08 02:35	same problem here. one of my dwarves is bedridden and seems to need suturing, but the doctor keeps failing to apply it. hes been bedridden for over a year. the wounds still seem to be there though.

(0002014) Greenbane (reporter) 2010-04-08 06:52	I'll add that, in my experience, natural healing is stopped during medical procedures. I have a lightly-wounded dwarf who's been getting wound-dressing for at least three years now, and: - As mentioned in 0000474, the dressing's never completed. - He hasn't healed naturally at all in those three years, and he just has a yellow injury and a dark yellow one. Would that second factor warrant a new bug report?

(0003085) Footkerchief (manager) 2010-04-12 10:50 edited on: 2010-04-12 10:50	Greenbane: if you have a save where a dwarf's natural healing doesn't seem to work, yeah, that'd probably warrant its own report. Workaround the main issue in this report: according to Toybasher (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=1049#c3072 [^]), causing a cave-in next to the patient's bed will reset the diagnosis process so that they stop trying to treat healed wounds. Haven't tested that myself though.

(0003086) axus (reporter) 2010-04-12 10:57	It's not super unrealistic, a nice thing would be for the doctor to order a new diagnosis if his procedure couldn't complete.

(0003088) smjjames (reporter) 2010-04-12 11:05	@Footkerchief: Sounds like an extreme way to do it, with its own issues.

(0003489) Orkel2 (reporter) 2010-04-14 09:30	I have this too, makes the game unplayable as wounded dwarves are as good as dead because the doctors never finish healing them.

(0003528) garanis (reporter) 2010-04-14 11:40	It doesn't really make the game unplayable for me, but I have been making all of my fortresses impenetrable as a result. It is quite frustrating to have a legendary wrestler/fighter get a broken foot and never heal properly. I also have two dwarves right now who are missing a foot. It seems like it would be a simple proposition to slap a crutch on them and send them off to the mines to live out the rest of their miserable existences, but no, they just lay in bed for years.

(0003715) axus (reporter) 2010-04-15 10:24 edited on: 2010-04-15 10:25	Hey, here's a save exhibiting some bad hospital behavior. First problem is the dwarf with the yellow arm who keeps getting used for suture practice. The second problem is a very badly injured miner who can't even get a diagnosis. .03 of course! http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=2116 [^]

(0003718) toybasher (reporter) 2010-04-15 10:27	footkercheif, I havnt even tested the cave in method but I guess it might work, I read this on the wiki and on the forum once I think.

(0003767) Malicus (reporter) 2010-04-15 16:10 edited on: 2010-04-15 16:10	A barely-wounded (now a scar) dwarf keeps requesting wound dressing, in a seemingly related issue. I tried the cave-in workaround, and it didn't work (unless the dwarf got injured from slamming into something, that is). There are probably less severe ways to injure a dwarf, if that is the intent.

(0003843) toybasher (reporter) 2010-04-16 07:12 edited on: 2010-04-16 07:12	Well You could just use traps, but You cant place them under beds, so the only way to do it is to wait for the dorf to get hungry or thirsty mid suergery and as he gets out of bed set off the trap.

(0003915) Malicus (reporter) 2010-04-16 15:40	Actually, no. Traps ARE the answer, it seems, but not the way you think. Make your only hospital the one tile on a stonefall trap. The dwarf who needs to rest will go there, rest, then get hit by the stone due to falling unconscious on the trap, and stonefall traps don't cause much injury now. That dwarf is now actually being treated.

(0003968) Toady One (administrator) 2010-04-17 05:15	This one should be fixed for 0.31.04.