0000197: No wagons in trader/merchant caravans

(0000613)
Shurhaian (reporter)
2010-04-03 12:02

I have never seen caravans arrive with wagons. My current save doesn't have access to elven or human civs, but my prior one did, and not only would the dwarves not bring wagons, neither would the humans, and they only brought a few burden beasts each, resulting in pathetic selection.

(0000659)
burneddi (reporter)
2010-04-03 14:25

My first-year caravan did not bring those big wagons they used to bring in older versions, instead they brought those 1-tile carriages and happily walked down stairs straight to my depot. They had almost nothing to trade.

(0000738)
Malicus (reporter)
2010-04-03 18:26

The dwarves in my first year also did not bring wagons.

(0002802)
kaefermelder (reporter)
2010-04-11 08:12

My impression was that the selection is just as big as it was in 40d, elves bring even much more.

But yeah, no wagons at all, no note about bypassing, and my site/depot is accessible from at least 3 directions

(0005153)
smjjames (reporter)
2010-04-26 11:12
edited on: 2010-04-26 11:12

Maybe it has something to do with the fact that some of the trade animals are missing the wagon puller tag?

I bet theres a quick fix here.

(0005249)
Malicus (reporter)
2010-04-26 20:13
edited on: 2010-04-26 20:14

Just tested by adding [WAGON_PULLER] to horses, genning a new world, and starting a fort. The dwarven traders showed up at autumn with a horse.. but no wagon, despite horses being able to pull them (and the dwarves obviously having horses).

So... it's a fix that probably needs to be made, but it doesn't fix the problem of no wagons.

(0005275)
Footkerchief (manager)
2010-04-26 21:11
edited on: 2010-04-26 21:12

I'm not sure the dwarves should necessarily bring a wagon right away. You might have to give them some profits first.

(0005276)
smjjames (reporter)
2010-04-26 21:13

Dang, I thought it might be a quick fix myself, so its bigger than just the wagon puller tag issue.

The missing wagon puller tags on some animals is a bug in itself, but apparently not the root of the problem. Not that the infinite capacity warthogs are helping anything.

(0005652)
Knight Otu (manager)
2010-04-29 05:09

Yeah, I had the same conclusion at 0000660 - wagonpuller apparently isn't sufficient to get wagons.

Hm, actually, it seems I didn't add that conclusion there.

(0005658)
PencilinHand (reporter)
2010-04-29 06:34
edited on: 2010-04-29 06:42

As footkerchief said, try giving the traders good profits for a few years. That seems to help with the quantity and selection of goods. Obscene giveaways are a surefire way to motivate traders.

EDIT: Which of the raws did you add [WAGON_PULLER] to?

(0005667)
Knight Otu (manager)
2010-04-29 10:14

I'm not sure what smjjames did, but I had it on horses and a modded creature. I think at some point I added it to donkeys and mules as well

(0010866)
jfs (reporter)
2010-07-23 06:12

The summary of this issue should really be just "caravans bring no wagons", the only reason I put "second year" originally was that I never noticed whether the first year caravan had brought any wagons when I played my first 0.31.01 game ;)

(0013027)
Malibu Stacey (reporter)
2010-09-27 15:16

This still exists in 31.14. Played 3 years of a new region generated in this version, Dwarves & Humans have been to my fort to trade & left with a good profit each year. Each year more pack animals come with the traders with more stuff to trade but still no wagons/carts/caravans show up with them.

(0013032)
Dame de la Licorne (reporter)
2010-09-27 18:58

Have you tried building roads?

I remember back in the 2D version, the humans wouldn't bring wagons until you'd built a road and smoothed all of the boulders and "rough" floors. However, the first dwarven caravan would warn you about that when they left in the first autumn.

(0013037)
Malibu Stacey (reporter)
2010-09-28 05:53

Will give it a shot when I get home this evening. Have a lovely new region generated with a 6*6 embark saved for actual play rather than bug testing which is a prime candidate to see if this makes a difference.

(0013041)
Quietust (reporter)
2010-09-28 09:51

Roads haven't made a difference since the first 3D version (when the Shift+D command became available for highlighting wagon-accessible paths). If roads were the problem, we'd be seeing "Their wagons have bypassed your inaccessible site" when the caravan arrived at the map edge, but we're not, because they aren't even trying to bring them.

(0013042)
Dame de la Licorne (reporter)
2010-09-28 10:07

I figured, but it was worth a shot.

(0013301)
Q.T.Quazar (reporter)
2010-10-10 11:45

No Wagons Ho in 31.16 either.

(0013318)
lopen139 (reporter)
2010-10-11 05:54

wagons do need slopes, you know that right?

(0013348)
Quietust (reporter)
2010-10-13 11:14

lopen139: What exactly does that have to do with anything? As stated already, caravans aren't even trying to bring wagons - if wagon-accessible paths (which allow ramps but do not explicitly require them) were the only problem, we'd be getting announcements that "Their wagons have bypassed your inaccessible site."

(0014455)
Dwarfu (manager)
2010-12-08 07:32

Please note Toady's comments:

"...since I'm not sure we'll have wagons/carts until we get around to the big vehicle rewrites now, or maybe even the road stuff as well."

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=60554.msg1776138#msg1776138 [^]

(0019268)
Quietust (reporter)
2011-12-30 14:22

I can confirm that the reason wagons are not showing up is because the game is failing to mark them as being available to the relevant civilizations - by doing some memory hacking to make them available (finding the appropriate entity record, locating the arrays which list the creature/caste combinations usable for wagons and wagon pullers, then using DFHack to insert appropriate values), I successfully got a Human caravan to arrive with 4 fully functional wagons, each pulled by a pair of horses and driven by a Human Merchant.

(0019404)
Quietust (reporter)
2012-01-18 09:57
edited on: 2012-01-18 12:10

I dug a bit deeper into the code, and I found that creatures with flag 0 are being unconditionally rejected as "available creatures", just in between the checks for [EVIL] (when [USE_EVIL_ANIMALS] is not present in the entity) and [BIOME:SUBTERRANEAN_LAVA]/[FANCIFUL], and the creature token [EQUIPMENT_WAGON] always sets flag 0 along with flag 1 (where 1=EQUIPMENT_WAGON, 2=MUNDANE, 3=VERMIN_EATER, 4=VERMIN_GROUNDER, etc.).

The following binary patch for Win32 version 0.31.25 SDL should resolve this issue for newly generated worlds:
1AF1E1 : B2 0E -> 00 00 - disable the "ignore creatures with flag 0 set" check.

(0019452)
Quietust (reporter)
2012-02-01 14:03

Binary patch for version 0.31.25 Linux: (untested)
2AD042 : 0F 84 -> 90 E9

(0019865)
Toady One (administrator)
2012-02-16 16:49

The wagons come again in the next one. Thanks Quietust!

Issue History
Date Modified	Username	Field	Change
2010-04-02 16:33	jfs	New Issue
2010-04-02 18:33	Felblood	Tag Attached: trade
2010-04-03 12:02	Shurhaian	Note Added: 0000613
2010-04-03 12:11	Aquillion	Tag Attached: wagon
2010-04-03 14:25	burneddi	Note Added: 0000659
2010-04-03 18:26	Malicus	Note Added: 0000738
2010-04-06 04:30	derigo	Issue Monitored: derigo
2010-04-11 08:12	kaefermelder	Note Added: 0002802
2010-04-26 10:58	Footkerchief	Category	General => Dwarf Mode -- Trade
2010-04-26 10:58	Footkerchief	Relationship added	parent of 0000660
2010-04-26 11:03	Footkerchief	Relationship added	related to 0000545
2010-04-26 11:12	smjjames	Note Added: 0005153
2010-04-26 11:12	smjjames	Note Edited: 0005153	View Revisions
2010-04-26 13:03	Footkerchief	Summary	Second year dwarf caravan brings no wagons => Second year dwarf caravan brings no wagons, possibly because only muskox has WAGON_PULLER
2010-04-26 13:03	Footkerchief	Tag Attached: PROBABLE QUICK FIX
2010-04-26 20:13	Malicus	Note Added: 0005249
2010-04-26 20:14	Malicus	Note Edited: 0005249	View Revisions
2010-04-26 21:11	Footkerchief	Note Added: 0005275
2010-04-26 21:11	Footkerchief	Note Edited: 0005275	View Revisions
2010-04-26 21:11	Footkerchief	Tag Detached: PROBABLE QUICK FIX
2010-04-26 21:11	Footkerchief	Summary	Second year dwarf caravan brings no wagons, possibly because only muskox has WAGON_PULLER => Second year dwarf caravan brings no wagons
2010-04-26 21:12	Footkerchief	Note Edited: 0005275	View Revisions
2010-04-26 21:13	smjjames	Note Added: 0005276
2010-04-29 05:09	Knight Otu	Note Added: 0005652
2010-04-29 06:34	PencilinHand	Note Added: 0005658
2010-04-29 06:42	PencilinHand	Note Edited: 0005658	View Revisions
2010-04-29 10:14	Knight Otu	Note Added: 0005667
2010-07-23 06:12	jfs	Note Added: 0010866
2010-07-23 07:21	Footkerchief	Summary	Second year dwarf caravan brings no wagons => No wagons in trader/merchant caravans
2010-07-23 07:35	Dawide	Issue Monitored: Dawide
2010-07-23 07:44	Hieronymous Alloy	Issue Monitored: Hieronymous Alloy
2010-07-23 14:51	Khym Chanur	Issue Monitored: Khym Chanur
2010-07-30 06:49	Dawkins	Issue Monitored: Dawkins
2010-08-05 18:20	HebaruSan	Issue Monitored: HebaruSan
2010-08-23 04:49	tzkal	Issue Monitored: tzkal
2010-08-26 22:25	Beeskee	Issue Monitored: Beeskee
2010-09-17 07:56	reddit	Issue Monitored: reddit
2010-09-27 15:16	Malibu Stacey	Note Added: 0013027
2010-09-27 18:58	Dame de la Licorne	Note Added: 0013032
2010-09-28 05:53	Malibu Stacey	Note Added: 0013037
2010-09-28 09:51	Quietust	Note Added: 0013041
2010-09-28 10:07	Dame de la Licorne	Note Added: 0013042
2010-10-10 11:45	Q.T.Quazar	Note Added: 0013301
2010-10-10 14:25	Another	Issue Monitored: Another
2010-10-11 05:54	lopen139	Note Added: 0013318
2010-10-13 11:14	Quietust	Note Added: 0013348
2010-10-26 08:30	Malibu Stacey	Issue Monitored: Malibu Stacey
2010-11-01 14:31	madjoe5	Issue Monitored: madjoe5
2010-11-02 08:23	wRAR	Issue Monitored: wRAR
2010-11-12 08:49	jfs	Issue Monitored: jfs
2010-11-16 13:38	Footkerchief	Relationship added	related to 0003392
2010-11-23 20:45	LupusIntus	Issue Monitored: LupusIntus
2010-12-08 07:31	Dwarfu	Relationship replaced	has duplicate 0000660
2010-12-08 07:31	Dwarfu	Issue Monitored: kaosdrachen
2010-12-08 07:31	Dwarfu	Issue Monitored: Trigger64
2010-12-08 07:31	Dwarfu	Issue Monitored: lord_chaos22000
2010-12-08 07:31	Dwarfu	Issue Monitored: jgoodwin
2010-12-08 07:31	Dwarfu	Issue Monitored: Naros
2010-12-08 07:31	Dwarfu	Issue Monitored: RossM
2010-12-08 07:32	Dwarfu	Note Added: 0014455
2011-12-30 14:22	Quietust	Note Added: 0019268
2012-01-18 09:57	Quietust	Note Added: 0019404
2012-01-18 09:57	Quietust	Tag Attached: binary patch
2012-01-18 09:59	Quietust	Note Edited: 0019404	View Revisions
2012-01-18 12:10	Quietust	Note Edited: 0019404	View Revisions
2012-02-01 14:03	Quietust	Note Added: 0019452
2012-02-16 16:49	Toady One	Note Added: 0019865
2012-02-16 16:49	Toady One	Status	new => resolved
2012-02-16 16:49	Toady One	Fixed in Version	=> Next Version
2012-02-16 16:49	Toady One	Resolution	open => fixed
2012-02-16 16:49	Toady One	Assigned To	=> Toady One
2012-02-17 13:16	madjoe5	Issue End Monitor: madjoe5
2012-03-29 05:39	Naros	Issue End Monitor: Naros
2012-07-05 06:52	Malibu Stacey	Issue End Monitor: Malibu Stacey
2014-01-15 14:49	Kirig Stonebeard II	Issue Monitored: Kirig Stonebeard II
2014-01-17 10:03	Kirig Stonebeard	Issue Monitored: Kirig Stonebeard

Notes
(0000613) Shurhaian (reporter) 2010-04-03 12:02	I have never seen caravans arrive with wagons. My current save doesn't have access to elven or human civs, but my prior one did, and not only would the dwarves not bring wagons, neither would the humans, and they only brought a few burden beasts each, resulting in pathetic selection.

(0000659) burneddi (reporter) 2010-04-03 14:25	My first-year caravan did not bring those big wagons they used to bring in older versions, instead they brought those 1-tile carriages and happily walked down stairs straight to my depot. They had almost nothing to trade.

(0000738) Malicus (reporter) 2010-04-03 18:26	The dwarves in my first year also did not bring wagons.

(0002802) kaefermelder (reporter) 2010-04-11 08:12	My impression was that the selection is just as big as it was in 40d, elves bring even much more. But yeah, no wagons at all, no note about bypassing, and my site/depot is accessible from at least 3 directions

(0005153) smjjames (reporter) 2010-04-26 11:12 edited on: 2010-04-26 11:12	Maybe it has something to do with the fact that some of the trade animals are missing the wagon puller tag? I bet theres a quick fix here.

(0005249) Malicus (reporter) 2010-04-26 20:13 edited on: 2010-04-26 20:14	Just tested by adding [WAGON_PULLER] to horses, genning a new world, and starting a fort. The dwarven traders showed up at autumn with a horse.. but no wagon, despite horses being able to pull them (and the dwarves obviously having horses). So... it's a fix that probably needs to be made, but it doesn't fix the problem of no wagons.

(0005275) Footkerchief (manager) 2010-04-26 21:11 edited on: 2010-04-26 21:12	I'm not sure the dwarves should necessarily bring a wagon right away. You might have to give them some profits first.

(0005276) smjjames (reporter) 2010-04-26 21:13	Dang, I thought it might be a quick fix myself, so its bigger than just the wagon puller tag issue. The missing wagon puller tags on some animals is a bug in itself, but apparently not the root of the problem. Not that the infinite capacity warthogs are helping anything.

(0005652) Knight Otu (manager) 2010-04-29 05:09	Yeah, I had the same conclusion at 0000660 - wagonpuller apparently isn't sufficient to get wagons. Hm, actually, it seems I didn't add that conclusion there.

(0005658) PencilinHand (reporter) 2010-04-29 06:34 edited on: 2010-04-29 06:42	As footkerchief said, try giving the traders good profits for a few years. That seems to help with the quantity and selection of goods. Obscene giveaways are a surefire way to motivate traders. EDIT: Which of the raws did you add [WAGON_PULLER] to?

(0005667) Knight Otu (manager) 2010-04-29 10:14	I'm not sure what smjjames did, but I had it on horses and a modded creature. I think at some point I added it to donkeys and mules as well

(0010866) jfs (reporter) 2010-07-23 06:12	The summary of this issue should really be just "caravans bring no wagons", the only reason I put "second year" originally was that I never noticed whether the first year caravan had brought any wagons when I played my first 0.31.01 game ;)

(0013027) Malibu Stacey (reporter) 2010-09-27 15:16	This still exists in 31.14. Played 3 years of a new region generated in this version, Dwarves & Humans have been to my fort to trade & left with a good profit each year. Each year more pack animals come with the traders with more stuff to trade but still no wagons/carts/caravans show up with them.

(0013032) Dame de la Licorne (reporter) 2010-09-27 18:58	Have you tried building roads? I remember back in the 2D version, the humans wouldn't bring wagons until you'd built a road and smoothed all of the boulders and "rough" floors. However, the first dwarven caravan would warn you about that when they left in the first autumn.

(0013037) Malibu Stacey (reporter) 2010-09-28 05:53	Will give it a shot when I get home this evening. Have a lovely new region generated with a 6*6 embark saved for actual play rather than bug testing which is a prime candidate to see if this makes a difference.

(0013041) Quietust (reporter) 2010-09-28 09:51	Roads haven't made a difference since the first 3D version (when the Shift+D command became available for highlighting wagon-accessible paths). If roads were the problem, we'd be seeing "Their wagons have bypassed your inaccessible site" when the caravan arrived at the map edge, but we're not, because they aren't even trying to bring them.

(0013042) Dame de la Licorne (reporter) 2010-09-28 10:07	I figured, but it was worth a shot.

(0013301) Q.T.Quazar (reporter) 2010-10-10 11:45	No Wagons Ho in 31.16 either.

(0013318) lopen139 (reporter) 2010-10-11 05:54	wagons do need slopes, you know that right?

(0013348) Quietust (reporter) 2010-10-13 11:14	lopen139: What exactly does that have to do with anything? As stated already, caravans aren't even trying to bring wagons - if wagon-accessible paths (which allow ramps but do not explicitly require them) were the only problem, we'd be getting announcements that "Their wagons have bypassed your inaccessible site."

(0014455) Dwarfu (manager) 2010-12-08 07:32	Please note Toady's comments: "...since I'm not sure we'll have wagons/carts until we get around to the big vehicle rewrites now, or maybe even the road stuff as well." http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=60554.msg1776138#msg1776138 [^]

(0019268) Quietust (reporter) 2011-12-30 14:22	I can confirm that the reason wagons are not showing up is because the game is failing to mark them as being available to the relevant civilizations - by doing some memory hacking to make them available (finding the appropriate entity record, locating the arrays which list the creature/caste combinations usable for wagons and wagon pullers, then using DFHack to insert appropriate values), I successfully got a Human caravan to arrive with 4 fully functional wagons, each pulled by a pair of horses and driven by a Human Merchant.

(0019404) Quietust (reporter) 2012-01-18 09:57 edited on: 2012-01-18 12:10	I dug a bit deeper into the code, and I found that creatures with flag 0 are being unconditionally rejected as "available creatures", just in between the checks for [EVIL] (when [USE_EVIL_ANIMALS] is not present in the entity) and [BIOME:SUBTERRANEAN_LAVA]/[FANCIFUL], and the creature token [EQUIPMENT_WAGON] always sets flag 0 along with flag 1 (where 1=EQUIPMENT_WAGON, 2=MUNDANE, 3=VERMIN_EATER, 4=VERMIN_GROUNDER, etc.). The following binary patch for Win32 version 0.31.25 SDL should resolve this issue for newly generated worlds: 1AF1E1 : B2 0E -> 00 00 - disable the "ignore creatures with flag 0 set" check.

(0019452) Quietust (reporter) 2012-02-01 14:03	Binary patch for version 0.31.25 Linux: (untested) 2AD042 : 0F 84 -> 90 E9

(0019865) Toady One (administrator) 2012-02-16 16:49	The wagons come again in the next one. Thanks Quietust!