0002373: Dwarf with nerve damage in leg never gets crutch, stays in bed forever

(0008665)
Cespinarve (reporter)
2010-06-18 22:45

Save file: http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=2541 [^]

(0009520)
toybasher (reporter)
2010-07-02 08:39

I was thinking its related to how Toady removed phantom pains, now when a limb is lost (dark grey foot for example) after a while it goes away and "left foot" goes bye bye from the wounds screen entirely. I bet this confuses the doctor into thinking he isnt missing a foot or something.

(0009537)
Cespinarve (reporter)
2010-07-02 13:40

Except that he never lost a limb. The limb is intact, just the nerve clusters were severed- apparently irrevocably. But the muscles in his hips still work,I assume the leg can be moved somewhat where it connects to the body.

(0010590)
cephalo (reporter)
2010-07-18 12:13

I also have a dwarf in bed with motor nerve damage in one leg. Stays in bed.

(0010613)
s20dan (reporter)
2010-07-18 22:03

I have a dwarf with this problem in 31.10

(0012427)
TomiTapio (reporter)
2010-09-05 13:29

I say this is a major bug about crutches never being used. V31.12.

(0012432)
Quietust (reporter)
2010-09-05 14:59

I've got an ex-Hammerdwarf in 0.31.12 who took significant damage to his lower spine (ability to stand lost, but the diagnosis failed to determine that there was nerve damage) and has been bedridden for several years. It'd be nice if he could at least go back to being a furnace operator.

(0012433)
kwieland (reporter)
2010-09-05 18:55

My only luck with dwarfs such as those is to drop them a Z level. That seems to reset the healthcare and give the doctors another go at it.

(0012438)
KahunaGod (reporter)
2010-09-05 21:48
edited on: 2010-09-05 22:33

Once you have nerve damage, your screwed. They wont ever leave the bed. Known bug.
From the wiki:

"For whatever reason, Dwarves will never, EVER be assigned crutches. No matter what. It doesn't matter what labors are or aren't assigned, where your crutches are or aren't kept, whether they're stored in containers built in the hospital or in stockpiles placed within the hospital, whether the crutches are masterworks or just tack, or what other injuries the dwarves do or do not have. What this means, in practical gameplay terms, is that a dwarf with a broken leg will recover once the leg is set with gypsum plaster - but a dwarf with sensory nerve damage, or a missing limb, will remain a bed-ridden invalid for the rest of their miserable life."

Source: http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/Hospital#ixzz0yinxfyjb [^]

I have taken to using Dwarf Therapist to set wounded like that to "Cripple", removeing them from my military and clearing all jobs. When I am feeling evil, i build them a little bed over magma and then.........

EDITS: spelling and stuff

(0013696)
Alumine (reporter)
2010-11-11 16:30
edited on: 2010-11-11 16:31

I can confirm this one. Nerve damage in legs -> your dwarf stays in bed forever
Version 0.31.16

(0014714)
Areyar (reporter)
2010-12-26 16:25

yep. v3.17, dwarf with lower leg chopped off.
Medical care is limited to getting dumped in the hospital.
No diagnosis or crutches are given, only food and water.

(0016350)
Dwarfu (manager)
2011-03-18 09:50

This may also be fixed. See Toady's note at 0000681:0016199:

"The current state now with fixes applied is that dwarves with one leg or a broken leg will use a crutch, and dwarves without legs or that can't use either leg but are otherwise treated and healthy will just move around slowly on the ground."

(0017447)
Kumquat (reporter)
2011-04-20 09:27

Loaded my .18 game in .24.

Nerve-damaged (ex)military dwarf crawled off the bed to a stockpile, stopped there to get hauled back to hospital and re-diagnosed and received his crutch.

Yay.

(0017449)
Footkerchief (manager)
2011-04-20 10:22

Reminder sent to: Cespinarve

Cespinarve, does your save still exhibit this problem in 0.31.25?

(0017450)
Cespinarve (reporter)
2011-04-20 11:14

Well, he didn't grab a crutch yet, but the moment I unpaused the saved game, he got up and tried to go fishing. So, this no longer exhibits this problem.

(0017451)
Rhenaya (reporter)
2011-04-20 13:21

maybe old saves have this problems? in my newst fort (since .24) i dont have any problems, even got one with a twohanded sword in right and crutch in left hand ^^ (though not sure if this should be possible, the fighting impair is visible even on badgers)

(0017456)
Kumquat (reporter)
2011-04-21 15:18

Production/purchase of crutches seems to trigger re-diagnosis for crutch status. Until that formerly-crippled dwarfs will just crawl around.

This is probably a feature to avoid lag from dwarfs checking if they need a crutch and if there's one available constantly.

(Rationale: I bought some crutches from the human caravan that happened to be present in the savegame. Then I noticed my 'cripple' dwarf went comatose again in the armor stockpile and had to be hauled back to hospital.)

(0017457)
Kogut (reporter)
2011-04-21 15:23

I suggest to change "Dwarf with nerve damage in leg never gets crutch, stays in bed forever" into "crutches bugged for old saves"

(0017458)
Rhenaya (reporter)
2011-04-21 20:15

and the "for old saves" translates into "its fixed"

(0017462)
wRAR (reporter)
2011-04-22 03:17

0004477 looks related?

(0017728)
Quietust (reporter)
2011-05-14 16:48
edited on: 2011-05-14 16:49

I just had a dwarf in version 0.31.25 get mauled by a gorilla - he sustained damage to motor and sensory nerves in both of his legs, leaving him unable to stand. After his legs were sutured and dressed, he crawled away and resumed his normal duties.

The only "complication" was that my hospital was locked at the time (to keep dwarves away from the wells), which is where 4 of my 5 crutches were stored (the 5th one was in a finished goods stockpile elsewhere). Even after multiple saves and reloads, he isn't being given any crutches.

(0017736)
danaris (reporter)
2011-05-15 08:17

Aren't crutches only given to dwarves who still have one good leg?

(0017954)
Dwarfu (manager)
2011-06-08 11:08

Correct, if both legs are junk they should just crawl around. See Toady's note at 0000681:0016199.

(0017955)
Dwarfu (manager)
2011-06-08 11:15

Marking this as a duplicate of 0000681 (so as not to generate a new change log entry for 31.22), as Toady's fixes there seem to have fixed this per OP and Kumquat.

Issue History
Date Modified	Username	Field	Change
2010-06-18 22:23	Cespinarve	New Issue
2010-06-18 22:45	Cespinarve	Note Added: 0008665
2010-06-19 22:30	Cespinarve	Issue Monitored: Cespinarve
2010-06-22 18:17	Footkerchief	Relationship added	related to 0000681
2010-06-30 17:22	Khym Chanur	Issue Monitored: Khym Chanur
2010-07-02 08:39	toybasher	Note Added: 0009520
2010-07-02 13:40	Cespinarve	Note Added: 0009537
2010-07-18 09:26	Footkerchief	Relationship added	has duplicate 0002748
2010-07-18 09:26	Footkerchief	Summary	No Crutch never stand => Dwarf with nerve damage in leg never gets crutch, stays in bed forever
2010-07-18 12:13	cephalo	Note Added: 0010590
2010-07-18 22:03	s20dan	Note Added: 0010613
2010-09-05 13:29	TomiTapio	Note Added: 0012427
2010-09-05 14:59	Quietust	Note Added: 0012432
2010-09-05 18:55	kwieland	Note Added: 0012433
2010-09-05 21:48	KahunaGod	Note Added: 0012438
2010-09-05 21:48	KahunaGod	Note Edited: 0012438	View Revisions
2010-09-05 21:50	KahunaGod	Note Edited: 0012438	View Revisions
2010-09-05 22:33	KahunaGod	Note Edited: 0012438	View Revisions
2010-09-08 11:35	Dr. Funkenstein	Issue Monitored: Dr. Funkenstein
2010-09-08 12:03	Kennel	Tag Attached: healthcare
2010-09-08 12:03	Kennel	Tag Attached: nerves
2010-09-08 12:03	Kennel	Tag Attached: wound
2010-11-09 00:31	JoRo	Issue Monitored: JoRo
2010-11-11 16:30	Alumine	Note Added: 0013696
2010-11-11 16:31	Alumine	Note Edited: 0013696	View Revisions
2010-12-10 06:06	wRAR	Issue Monitored: wRAR
2010-12-10 08:22	hyperactiveChipmunk	Issue Monitored: hyperactiveChipmunk
2010-12-26 16:25	Areyar	Note Added: 0014714
2011-03-18 09:50	Dwarfu	Note Added: 0016350
2011-03-18 09:50	Dwarfu	Tag Attached: Fixed in 0.31.22?
2011-04-20 09:27	Kumquat	Note Added: 0017447
2011-04-20 10:22	Footkerchief	Tag Attached: Save Needs Testing
2011-04-20 10:22	Footkerchief	Note Added: 0017449
2011-04-20 10:22	Footkerchief	Tag Attached: AWAITING UPDATE
2011-04-20 11:14	Cespinarve	Note Added: 0017450
2011-04-20 13:21	Rhenaya	Note Added: 0017451
2011-04-21 15:18	Kumquat	Note Added: 0017456
2011-04-21 15:23	Kogut	Note Added: 0017457
2011-04-21 20:15	Rhenaya	Note Added: 0017458
2011-04-22 03:17	wRAR	Note Added: 0017462
2011-05-14 16:48	Quietust	Note Added: 0017728
2011-05-14 16:49	Quietust	Note Edited: 0017728	View Revisions
2011-05-15 08:17	danaris	Note Added: 0017736
2011-06-08 11:08	Dwarfu	Note Added: 0017954
2011-06-08 11:12	Dwarfu	Tag Detached: AWAITING UPDATE
2011-06-08 11:12	Dwarfu	Tag Detached: Save Needs Testing
2011-06-08 11:13	Dwarfu	Tag Detached: Fixed in 0.31.22?
2011-06-08 11:13	Dwarfu	Relationship replaced	child of 0000681
2011-06-08 11:15	Dwarfu	Note Added: 0017955
2011-06-08 11:15	Dwarfu	Relationship replaced	duplicate of 0000681
2011-06-08 11:15	Dwarfu	Status	new => resolved
2011-06-08 11:15	Dwarfu	Resolution	open => duplicate
2011-06-08 11:15	Dwarfu	Assigned To	=> Dwarfu

Notes
(0008665) Cespinarve (reporter) 2010-06-18 22:45	Save file: http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=2541 [^]

(0009520) toybasher (reporter) 2010-07-02 08:39	I was thinking its related to how Toady removed phantom pains, now when a limb is lost (dark grey foot for example) after a while it goes away and "left foot" goes bye bye from the wounds screen entirely. I bet this confuses the doctor into thinking he isnt missing a foot or something.

(0009537) Cespinarve (reporter) 2010-07-02 13:40	Except that he never lost a limb. The limb is intact, just the nerve clusters were severed- apparently irrevocably. But the muscles in his hips still work,I assume the leg can be moved somewhat where it connects to the body.

(0010590) cephalo (reporter) 2010-07-18 12:13	I also have a dwarf in bed with motor nerve damage in one leg. Stays in bed.

(0010613) s20dan (reporter) 2010-07-18 22:03	I have a dwarf with this problem in 31.10

(0012427) TomiTapio (reporter) 2010-09-05 13:29	I say this is a major bug about crutches never being used. V31.12.

(0012432) Quietust (reporter) 2010-09-05 14:59	I've got an ex-Hammerdwarf in 0.31.12 who took significant damage to his lower spine (ability to stand lost, but the diagnosis failed to determine that there was nerve damage) and has been bedridden for several years. It'd be nice if he could at least go back to being a furnace operator.

(0012433) kwieland (reporter) 2010-09-05 18:55	My only luck with dwarfs such as those is to drop them a Z level. That seems to reset the healthcare and give the doctors another go at it.

(0012438) KahunaGod (reporter) 2010-09-05 21:48 edited on: 2010-09-05 22:33	Once you have nerve damage, your screwed. They wont ever leave the bed. Known bug. From the wiki: "For whatever reason, Dwarves will never, EVER be assigned crutches. No matter what. It doesn't matter what labors are or aren't assigned, where your crutches are or aren't kept, whether they're stored in containers built in the hospital or in stockpiles placed within the hospital, whether the crutches are masterworks or just tack, or what other injuries the dwarves do or do not have. What this means, in practical gameplay terms, is that a dwarf with a broken leg will recover once the leg is set with gypsum plaster - but a dwarf with sensory nerve damage, or a missing limb, will remain a bed-ridden invalid for the rest of their miserable life." Source: http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/Hospital#ixzz0yinxfyjb [^] I have taken to using Dwarf Therapist to set wounded like that to "Cripple", removeing them from my military and clearing all jobs. When I am feeling evil, i build them a little bed over magma and then......... EDITS: spelling and stuff

(0013696) Alumine (reporter) 2010-11-11 16:30 edited on: 2010-11-11 16:31	I can confirm this one. Nerve damage in legs -> your dwarf stays in bed forever Version 0.31.16

(0014714) Areyar (reporter) 2010-12-26 16:25	yep. v3.17, dwarf with lower leg chopped off. Medical care is limited to getting dumped in the hospital. No diagnosis or crutches are given, only food and water.

(0016350) Dwarfu (manager) 2011-03-18 09:50	This may also be fixed. See Toady's note at 0000681:0016199: "The current state now with fixes applied is that dwarves with one leg or a broken leg will use a crutch, and dwarves without legs or that can't use either leg but are otherwise treated and healthy will just move around slowly on the ground."

(0017447) Kumquat (reporter) 2011-04-20 09:27	Loaded my .18 game in .24. Nerve-damaged (ex)military dwarf crawled off the bed to a stockpile, stopped there to get hauled back to hospital and re-diagnosed and received his crutch. Yay.

(0017449) Footkerchief (manager) 2011-04-20 10:22	Reminder sent to: Cespinarve Cespinarve, does your save still exhibit this problem in 0.31.25?

(0017450) Cespinarve (reporter) 2011-04-20 11:14	Well, he didn't grab a crutch yet, but the moment I unpaused the saved game, he got up and tried to go fishing. So, this no longer exhibits this problem.

(0017451) Rhenaya (reporter) 2011-04-20 13:21	maybe old saves have this problems? in my newst fort (since .24) i dont have any problems, even got one with a twohanded sword in right and crutch in left hand ^^ (though not sure if this should be possible, the fighting impair is visible even on badgers)

(0017456) Kumquat (reporter) 2011-04-21 15:18	Production/purchase of crutches seems to trigger re-diagnosis for crutch status. Until that formerly-crippled dwarfs will just crawl around. This is probably a feature to avoid lag from dwarfs checking if they need a crutch and if there's one available constantly. (Rationale: I bought some crutches from the human caravan that happened to be present in the savegame. Then I noticed my 'cripple' dwarf went comatose again in the armor stockpile and had to be hauled back to hospital.)

(0017457) Kogut (reporter) 2011-04-21 15:23	I suggest to change "Dwarf with nerve damage in leg never gets crutch, stays in bed forever" into "crutches bugged for old saves"

(0017458) Rhenaya (reporter) 2011-04-21 20:15	and the "for old saves" translates into "its fixed"

(0017462) wRAR (reporter) 2011-04-22 03:17	0004477 looks related?

(0017728) Quietust (reporter) 2011-05-14 16:48 edited on: 2011-05-14 16:49	I just had a dwarf in version 0.31.25 get mauled by a gorilla - he sustained damage to motor and sensory nerves in both of his legs, leaving him unable to stand. After his legs were sutured and dressed, he crawled away and resumed his normal duties. The only "complication" was that my hospital was locked at the time (to keep dwarves away from the wells), which is where 4 of my 5 crutches were stored (the 5th one was in a finished goods stockpile elsewhere). Even after multiple saves and reloads, he isn't being given any crutches.

(0017736) danaris (reporter) 2011-05-15 08:17	Aren't crutches only given to dwarves who still have one good leg?

(0017954) Dwarfu (manager) 2011-06-08 11:08	Correct, if both legs are junk they should just crawl around. See Toady's note at 0000681:0016199.

(0017955) Dwarfu (manager) 2011-06-08 11:15	Marking this as a duplicate of 0000681 (so as not to generate a new change log entry for 31.22), as Toady's fixes there seem to have fixed this per OP and Kumquat.