0002375: Dwarf wears gauntlets, yet the mittens he wears under them are getting hit and penetrated

(0008684)
Footkerchief (manager)
2010-06-19 11:06

The "through the mitten" message most likely means that the axe had already pierced the gauntlet and then pierced the mitten too. It's expected and realistic that the gauntlets should block most of the blows but let a few through. Do you have any evidence suggesting that's not what happened?

(0008689)
musicmastermsh (reporter)
2010-06-19 12:00

Does a battle-worn gauntlet show wear and tear?

(0008775)
Orkel2 (reporter)
2010-06-20 09:17

With the way the current combat system works, aka. worse material never penetrates good material, it's unlikely that the silver axe could have gotten through the iron gauntlet to hit the mitten. Atleast I think so. Maybe there's some hidden combat thingy which allows lucky shots to bypass armor, I dunno.

(0008776)
Footkerchief (manager)
2010-06-20 09:21

When the dwarves got hit, what were the exact messages you got? I'm guessing the ones you supplied are paraphrased, since I've never seen "smashing the bone."

(0008788)
Orkel2 (reporter)
2010-06-20 10:10
edited on: 2010-06-20 10:11

If I recall right, it was "shattering" the bone and "tearing" the muscle.

(0008790)
Footkerchief (manager)
2010-06-20 10:24

Are you sure it was the hand and not the finger? It would be helpful if you look up the events in gamelog.txt and copy-paste the text so that we're absolutely sure what happened.

(0008794)
Orkel2 (reporter)
2010-06-20 10:37

Yes, it was the hand. I deleted the old .06 DF folder when I installed .07 (now .08), so the gamelog is unfortunately gone. I'll post here if it happens in my new fort, though.

(0008797)
Footkerchief (manager)
2010-06-20 12:14

Even if it's the hand, I really doubt it's a bug for that to happen occasionally. It does seem like "worse material never penetrates good material" in many situations, but if there are situations where it works more realistically, that's probably a good thing.

(0035657)
Loci (manager)
2016-07-19 06:29

Mittens are a "cover" layer; they are worn *over* gauntlets. With that in mind, pretty much every serious attack would have penetrated a mitten. Those which then penetrated the gauntlet were only reported penetrating the outermost layer (mitten) per 0003196. Those which were deflected by the gauntlet were reported as such.

Notes
(0008684) Footkerchief (manager) 2010-06-19 11:06	The "through the mitten" message most likely means that the axe had already pierced the gauntlet and then pierced the mitten too. It's expected and realistic that the gauntlets should block most of the blows but let a few through. Do you have any evidence suggesting that's not what happened?

(0008689) musicmastermsh (reporter) 2010-06-19 12:00	Does a battle-worn gauntlet show wear and tear?

(0008775) Orkel2 (reporter) 2010-06-20 09:17	With the way the current combat system works, aka. worse material never penetrates good material, it's unlikely that the silver axe could have gotten through the iron gauntlet to hit the mitten. Atleast I think so. Maybe there's some hidden combat thingy which allows lucky shots to bypass armor, I dunno.

(0008776) Footkerchief (manager) 2010-06-20 09:21	When the dwarves got hit, what were the exact messages you got? I'm guessing the ones you supplied are paraphrased, since I've never seen "smashing the bone."

(0008788) Orkel2 (reporter) 2010-06-20 10:10 edited on: 2010-06-20 10:11	If I recall right, it was "shattering" the bone and "tearing" the muscle.

(0008790) Footkerchief (manager) 2010-06-20 10:24	Are you sure it was the hand and not the finger? It would be helpful if you look up the events in gamelog.txt and copy-paste the text so that we're absolutely sure what happened.

(0008794) Orkel2 (reporter) 2010-06-20 10:37	Yes, it was the hand. I deleted the old .06 DF folder when I installed .07 (now .08), so the gamelog is unfortunately gone. I'll post here if it happens in my new fort, though.

(0008797) Footkerchief (manager) 2010-06-20 12:14	Even if it's the hand, I really doubt it's a bug for that to happen occasionally. It does seem like "worse material never penetrates good material" in many situations, but if there are situations where it works more realistically, that's probably a good thing.

(0035657) Loci (manager) 2016-07-19 06:29	Mittens are a "cover" layer; they are worn over gauntlets. With that in mind, pretty much every serious attack would have penetrated a mitten. Those which then penetrated the gauntlet were only reported penetrating the outermost layer (mitten) per 0003196. Those which were deflected by the gauntlet were reported as such.

Issue History
Date Modified	Username	Field	Change
2010-06-19 04:00	Orkel2	New Issue
2010-06-19 11:06	Footkerchief	Note Added: 0008684
2010-06-19 12:00	musicmastermsh	Note Added: 0008689
2010-06-20 09:17	Orkel2	Note Added: 0008775
2010-06-20 09:21	Footkerchief	Note Added: 0008776
2010-06-20 09:21	Footkerchief	Relationship added	related to 0001060
2010-06-20 10:10	Orkel2	Note Added: 0008788
2010-06-20 10:11	Orkel2	Note Edited: 0008788	View Revisions
2010-06-20 10:24	Footkerchief	Note Added: 0008790
2010-06-20 10:37	Orkel2	Note Added: 0008794
2010-06-20 12:14	Footkerchief	Note Added: 0008797
2010-06-20 12:14	Footkerchief	Relationship deleted	related to 0001060
2012-02-20 19:10	Footkerchief	Relationship added	related to 0003196
2016-07-19 06:29	Loci	Note Added: 0035657
2016-07-19 06:29	Loci	Status	new => resolved
2016-07-19 06:29	Loci	Resolution	open => no change required
2016-07-19 06:29	Loci	Assigned To	=> Loci