0002440: Flux is ignored in the Site Finder - Dwarf Fortress Bug Tracker

(0008994)
Footkerchief (manager)
2010-06-22 19:14

Another possibility is that the embark area does indeed have a flux stone, but one which is lower than the top 8 layers.

Yeah, considering how deep the embark areas go, it would be helpful to investigate this possibility.

(0009077)
Executer (reporter)
2010-06-25 04:19

I've had a "Find flux: YES" on embark, it didn't show any on the layers, and I only ran into marble (the only flux on that embark) just above the magma sea. Still seems like a bug; either it should display the flux layer (shouldn't it display all the layers?) or should find embarks that have flux in the listed layers.

(0009081)
Cryten (reporter)
2010-06-25 06:40

Given how many layers you get these days displaying all the layers would be very clustery if at all attainable.

(0015638)
Footkerchief (manager)
2011-03-01 14:02

Reminder sent to: chironex, Executer

Does this perform as expected in 31.19?

(0015800)
wwWraith (reporter)
2011-03-06 07:03
edited on: 2011-03-06 07:05

This bug still exists in 31.20.

(0015866)
Chattox (reporter)
2011-03-06 15:55

It's far worse in 31.20, if I search for anything but just flux, it gets completely ignored. Very annoying.

(0015868)
DoctorZuber (reporter)
2011-03-06 16:28
edited on: 2011-03-06 16:45

(0.31.20)
having the same issue. My usual search parameters are
flux yes
aqua no
shallow multiple
deep multiple

and so far I've found several sites that don't have flux despite the finder claiming otherwise. Until dfprospect or dfreveal are updated it's hard to say much more on the subject.

(0015872)
Logical2u (manager)
2011-03-06 19:00

Are you all sure you're checking all the biomes?

(0015874)
DoctorZuber (reporter)
2011-03-06 19:30
edited on: 2011-03-06 19:33

quite sure. I expanded my embark area and used F1/F2/F3 to make sure I checked them all.

As for frequency, it hit me on the first two sites I checked in the finder. Third time is a charm I guess, finally found a site that actually listed flux.

(0015884)
Knight Otu (manager)
2011-03-07 04:03

It seems that it is possible that the site finder correctly finds flux, but the flux isn't displayed on the biome profile. I'm pretty sure I've embarked in regions that the finder claimed to have flux that didn't show up in the biome profiles, yet did have flux anyway right on the surface.

(0015891)
Chattox (reporter)
2011-03-07 06:58

I just set the sitefinder to look only for flux, everything else set to N/A. Most of the map was highlighted and none of it said anything about flux in the readout screen like I've seen occasionally. This is seriously annoying, the sitefinder is worse than it was before.

(0015901)
EmperorJon (reporter)
2011-03-07 09:49

I think Flux no longer shows in biome info, but can still be searched for. I would class THAT as a bug.

(0015902)
Granite26 (reporter)
2011-03-07 10:08
edited on: 2011-03-31 05:57

I'm in a shallow world fort that listed flux but got it gobbled up by the magma sea.
(i.e. only one cavern layer, flat surface, magma starts ~ 30 z in)

What's the definition of 'deep'?

(0015904)
DoctorZuber (reporter)
2011-03-07 11:23

deep metal? or deep soil? Neither is really "defined" yet. Also neither applies in any way to flux.

Flux is just flux.

(0015981)
loverevolutionary (reporter)
2011-03-08 16:47

31.21 world gen, I look for flux in the finder, it is highlighted almost everywhere. In most areas, flux is not listed in the embark screen. When I embark where there is flux listed, that flux might be marble or it might be a sedimentary stone. When it is marble, I recall finding it close to the surface, no more than 8-12 layers down. I generally see very few medium or large regions with flux listed on the embark, mostly I see small patches. In older versions, I would often see large areas of dolomite, limestone or chalk, all close to the surface. I would think, if large areas of sedimentary flux exist in 31.19-21, they would show up with flux listed on the embark screen. Also, when I generate worlds with very little volcanism, (meaning very little marble, one would assume) I find almost NO flux listed in the embark screen.
Hypothesis: the finder lists flux in the first 8 or so layers only. In addition, sedimentary flux stone is less common, but marble near the magma sea is more common than before.

(0016254)
Footkerchief (manager)
2011-03-14 17:10
edited on: 2011-03-14 17:12

xenophon posted a save at 0004222: http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=3967 [^]

1. Start Playing -> Dwarf Fortress
2. At the Choose Fortress Location dialog, select "f: Find Desired Location".
3. Add the following criteria:
  a. Flux Stone -> Yes
  b. Shallow Metal -> Multiple
  c. Deep Metal -> Multiple
4. Do Search and Browse Results
5. Navigate to the little island in the northwest corner, south of the glacier (name: "The Jungles of Dying")

Note that there is no flux stone listed in any of the four biomes of this island.

(0016312)
thermite (reporter)
2011-03-16 21:38

Seems like a much larger problem in 31.21 than in the past. I didn't seem to notice a problem on 31.19 but now it seems like It almost never shows flux on the embark screen even though the site finder highlighted a lot of places as having flux.

(0016378)
rpetiger (reporter)
2011-03-19 18:05
edited on: 2011-03-20 09:28

I just did a test. I put search for flux in the finder, and embarked in a place that said it had no flux. After that, I checked prospector and it says this site has marble.

@footkerchief I checked your save file, and did an embark in the jungles of dying. Even though no flux is listed, the map has 169513 units of marble in it.

It might be that the finder doesnt show flux unless there is a flux layer. That don't mean there is not flux however.

(0016801)
Neowulf (reporter)
2011-03-30 10:13

.25 here, 16x16 embark over an area reported by the site finder to be containing flux. Checked with both prospector and reveal, no flux found. I have yet to actually find flux in .25

(0016848)
Granite26 (reporter)
2011-03-31 05:59

Is it possible the listing is backwards? It says flux but means no flux?

(0017157)
Doskei (reporter)
2011-04-07 07:16

Sorry about the duplicate bug report, I'm new to this. I'll add my data here instead:

https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AsZU1AdPbE5CdEpBd2Ryb1cyanJpQktJUExjVG9LYnc&hl=en&authkey=CJHXvvcO [^]

That's the results of my quick testing. Each of those sites was chosen BY dwarf fortress. I never moved or changed the size of the embarkation area from the first result found, and I ALWAYS had Flux set to Yes when searching. There are two (out of 8) sites with zero flux, and in general the total amounts are tiny (always under 100). That's compared to an average Iron Ore total of 860 (Standard Deviation of 563, so BIG error bars). During testing I had MINERAL SCARCITY set to 150 to get what should be fantastic embarkation points.

(0020278)
Moleculor (reporter)
2012-02-20 11:49

Still exists as of 34.02.

(0020405)
HammerDave (reporter)
2012-02-21 12:44

I have noticed many occasions where the finder gave me a green for go indicator on the region, but after embark there was no flux to be found.

From observations only, and thus not terribly scientific, I'm thinking that it's reporting there is flux for several conditions where the flux isn't really there any more. They all amount to, it was there originally but is gone now.

1. It's near the bottom, and got replaced by intrusive igneous or it got metamorphed by the volcanic activity or melted into the magma sea.
2. It's in the cavern zone, and was all eroded away by cavern creation.
3. It's on the surface, but has been eroded away. Or it has been replaced by soil.

Anecdotally it seems quite possible that a layer can be flux (ie limestone) and finder will report the existence of a flux layer, even if there is no stone remaining that is native to the layer itself.

(0020959)
M_So (reporter)
2012-03-01 10:48

(Slightly off topic)

Would be nice if the site finder told you if it was 'Deep Flux, Shallow Flux, etc.' since it is almost as important as metal. (if not more so)

(0020961)
Dwarfu (manager)
2012-03-01 10:52

Reminder sent to: M_So

Please post replies that are directly related to the report.

Post suggestions on the appropriate forum:

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?board=5.0 [^]

(0021188)
Linkeron (reporter)
2012-03-06 14:51
edited on: 2012-03-09 07:57

Issue persists in 34.05

EDIT: Under all 'Medium' world gen parameters, flux stone seems to properly be generated and displayed at embark screen.

EDIT2: But at the actual site, no flux t be found anywhere.

Issue History
Date Modified	Username	Field	Change
2010-06-22 18:58	chironex	New Issue
2010-06-22 19:14	Footkerchief	Note Added: 0008994
2010-06-25 04:19	Executer	Note Added: 0009077
2010-06-25 06:40	Cryten	Note Added: 0009081
2010-12-10 13:22	Footkerchief	Tag Attached: Fixed in 0.31.19?
2011-03-01 14:02	Footkerchief	Issue Monitored: Executer
2011-03-01 14:02	Footkerchief	Note Added: 0015638
2011-03-01 14:02	Footkerchief	Tag Attached: AWAITING UPDATE
2011-03-01 15:51	Hieronymous Alloy	Issue Monitored: Hieronymous Alloy
2011-03-06 07:03	wwWraith	Note Added: 0015800
2011-03-06 07:05	wwWraith	Note Edited: 0015800	View Revisions
2011-03-06 15:55	Chattox	Note Added: 0015866
2011-03-06 16:28	DoctorZuber	Note Added: 0015868
2011-03-06 16:45	DoctorZuber	Note Edited: 0015868	View Revisions
2011-03-06 19:00	Logical2u	Note Added: 0015872
2011-03-06 19:30	DoctorZuber	Note Added: 0015874
2011-03-06 19:30	DoctorZuber	Note Edited: 0015874	View Revisions
2011-03-06 19:33	DoctorZuber	Note Edited: 0015874	View Revisions
2011-03-07 04:03	Knight Otu	Note Added: 0015884
2011-03-07 06:53	Chattox	Issue Monitored: Chattox
2011-03-07 06:58	Chattox	Note Added: 0015891
2011-03-07 09:49	EmperorJon	Note Added: 0015901
2011-03-07 10:08	Granite26	Note Added: 0015902
2011-03-07 10:08	Granite26	Issue Monitored: Granite26
2011-03-07 11:23	DoctorZuber	Note Added: 0015904
2011-03-08 16:47	loverevolutionary	Note Added: 0015981
2011-03-09 11:16	Footkerchief	Tag Detached: Fixed in 0.31.19?
2011-03-09 11:16	Footkerchief	Tag Detached: AWAITING UPDATE
2011-03-10 01:20	Khym Chanur	Issue Monitored: Khym Chanur
2011-03-14 17:10	Footkerchief	Note Added: 0016254
2011-03-14 17:11	Footkerchief	Relationship added	has duplicate 0004222
2011-03-14 17:11	Footkerchief	Issue Monitored: Infiltrator
2011-03-14 17:12	Footkerchief	Note Edited: 0016254	View Revisions
2011-03-16 21:38	thermite	Note Added: 0016312
2011-03-16 21:40	thermite	Issue Monitored: thermite
2011-03-19 07:31	xenophon	Issue Monitored: xenophon
2011-03-19 18:05	rpetiger	Note Added: 0016378
2011-03-20 09:28	rpetiger	Note Edited: 0016378	View Revisions
2011-03-30 10:13	Neowulf	Note Added: 0016801
2011-03-31 05:56	Granite26	Note Edited: 0015902	View Revisions
2011-03-31 05:57	Granite26	Note Edited: 0015902	View Revisions
2011-03-31 05:59	Granite26	Note Added: 0016848
2011-04-05 11:39	Footkerchief	Relationship added	has duplicate 0004452
2011-04-07 06:11	Footkerchief	Relationship added	has duplicate 0004463
2011-04-07 07:16	Doskei	Note Added: 0017157
2011-04-08 18:00	gpmfuchs	Issue Monitored: gpmfuchs
2011-05-01 15:11	Logical2u	Relationship added	has duplicate 0004601
2011-05-31 05:00	Logical2u	Relationship added	has duplicate 0004682
2012-02-20 11:49	Moleculor	Note Added: 0020278
2012-02-20 11:50	Moleculor	Tag Attached: 34.02
2012-02-20 11:50	Moleculor	Tag Detached: 34.02
2012-02-20 11:50	Moleculor	Tag Attached: 0.34.02
2012-02-20 11:50	Moleculor	Tag Attached: flux stone
2012-02-20 11:50	Moleculor	Tag Attached: site finder
2012-02-21 06:46	Footkerchief	Relationship added	has duplicate 0005308
2012-02-21 06:47	Footkerchief	Sticky Issue	No => Yes
2012-02-21 10:14	Zara	Issue Monitored: Zara
2012-02-21 12:44	HammerDave	Note Added: 0020405
2012-03-01 10:48	M_So	Note Added: 0020959
2012-03-01 10:52	Dwarfu	Issue Monitored: M_So
2012-03-01 10:52	Dwarfu	Note Added: 0020961
2012-03-06 14:51	Linkeron	Note Added: 0021188
2012-03-06 15:03	Linkeron	Note Edited: 0021188	View Revisions
2012-03-09 07:57	Linkeron	Note Edited: 0021188	View Revisions
2012-03-29 04:42	Toady One	Status	new => resolved
2012-03-29 04:42	Toady One	Fixed in Version	=> Next Version
2012-03-29 04:42	Toady One	Resolution	open => fixed
2012-03-29 04:42	Toady One	Assigned To	=> Toady One
2012-03-29 05:39	Dwarfu	Sticky Issue	Yes => No
2012-03-30 08:57	Infiltrator	Issue End Monitor: Infiltrator
2012-04-04 13:37	xenophon	Issue End Monitor: xenophon
2012-06-15 09:05	Footkerchief	Relationship added	related to 0005732
2012-07-01 12:28	AlienDjinn	Issue Monitored: AlienDjinn

Notes
(0008994) Footkerchief (manager) 2010-06-22 19:14	Another possibility is that the embark area does indeed have a flux stone, but one which is lower than the top 8 layers. Yeah, considering how deep the embark areas go, it would be helpful to investigate this possibility.

(0009077) Executer (reporter) 2010-06-25 04:19	I've had a "Find flux: YES" on embark, it didn't show any on the layers, and I only ran into marble (the only flux on that embark) just above the magma sea. Still seems like a bug; either it should display the flux layer (shouldn't it display all the layers?) or should find embarks that have flux in the listed layers.

(0009081) Cryten (reporter) 2010-06-25 06:40	Given how many layers you get these days displaying all the layers would be very clustery if at all attainable.

(0015638) Footkerchief (manager) 2011-03-01 14:02	Reminder sent to: chironex, Executer Does this perform as expected in 31.19?

(0015800) wwWraith (reporter) 2011-03-06 07:03 edited on: 2011-03-06 07:05	This bug still exists in 31.20.

(0015866) Chattox (reporter) 2011-03-06 15:55	It's far worse in 31.20, if I search for anything but just flux, it gets completely ignored. Very annoying.

(0015868) DoctorZuber (reporter) 2011-03-06 16:28 edited on: 2011-03-06 16:45	(0.31.20) having the same issue. My usual search parameters are flux yes aqua no shallow multiple deep multiple and so far I've found several sites that don't have flux despite the finder claiming otherwise. Until dfprospect or dfreveal are updated it's hard to say much more on the subject.

(0015872) Logical2u (manager) 2011-03-06 19:00	Are you all sure you're checking all the biomes?

(0015874) DoctorZuber (reporter) 2011-03-06 19:30 edited on: 2011-03-06 19:33	quite sure. I expanded my embark area and used F1/F2/F3 to make sure I checked them all. As for frequency, it hit me on the first two sites I checked in the finder. Third time is a charm I guess, finally found a site that actually listed flux.

(0015884) Knight Otu (manager) 2011-03-07 04:03	It seems that it is possible that the site finder correctly finds flux, but the flux isn't displayed on the biome profile. I'm pretty sure I've embarked in regions that the finder claimed to have flux that didn't show up in the biome profiles, yet did have flux anyway right on the surface.

(0015891) Chattox (reporter) 2011-03-07 06:58	I just set the sitefinder to look only for flux, everything else set to N/A. Most of the map was highlighted and none of it said anything about flux in the readout screen like I've seen occasionally. This is seriously annoying, the sitefinder is worse than it was before.

(0015901) EmperorJon (reporter) 2011-03-07 09:49	I think Flux no longer shows in biome info, but can still be searched for. I would class THAT as a bug.

(0015902) Granite26 (reporter) 2011-03-07 10:08 edited on: 2011-03-31 05:57	I'm in a shallow world fort that listed flux but got it gobbled up by the magma sea. (i.e. only one cavern layer, flat surface, magma starts ~ 30 z in) What's the definition of 'deep'?

(0015904) DoctorZuber (reporter) 2011-03-07 11:23	deep metal? or deep soil? Neither is really "defined" yet. Also neither applies in any way to flux. Flux is just flux.

(0015981) loverevolutionary (reporter) 2011-03-08 16:47	31.21 world gen, I look for flux in the finder, it is highlighted almost everywhere. In most areas, flux is not listed in the embark screen. When I embark where there is flux listed, that flux might be marble or it might be a sedimentary stone. When it is marble, I recall finding it close to the surface, no more than 8-12 layers down. I generally see very few medium or large regions with flux listed on the embark, mostly I see small patches. In older versions, I would often see large areas of dolomite, limestone or chalk, all close to the surface. I would think, if large areas of sedimentary flux exist in 31.19-21, they would show up with flux listed on the embark screen. Also, when I generate worlds with very little volcanism, (meaning very little marble, one would assume) I find almost NO flux listed in the embark screen. Hypothesis: the finder lists flux in the first 8 or so layers only. In addition, sedimentary flux stone is less common, but marble near the magma sea is more common than before.

(0016254) Footkerchief (manager) 2011-03-14 17:10 edited on: 2011-03-14 17:12	xenophon posted a save at 0004222: http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=3967 [^] 1. Start Playing -> Dwarf Fortress 2. At the Choose Fortress Location dialog, select "f: Find Desired Location". 3. Add the following criteria: a. Flux Stone -> Yes b. Shallow Metal -> Multiple c. Deep Metal -> Multiple 4. Do Search and Browse Results 5. Navigate to the little island in the northwest corner, south of the glacier (name: "The Jungles of Dying") Note that there is no flux stone listed in any of the four biomes of this island.

(0016312) thermite (reporter) 2011-03-16 21:38	Seems like a much larger problem in 31.21 than in the past. I didn't seem to notice a problem on 31.19 but now it seems like It almost never shows flux on the embark screen even though the site finder highlighted a lot of places as having flux.

(0016378) rpetiger (reporter) 2011-03-19 18:05 edited on: 2011-03-20 09:28	I just did a test. I put search for flux in the finder, and embarked in a place that said it had no flux. After that, I checked prospector and it says this site has marble. @footkerchief I checked your save file, and did an embark in the jungles of dying. Even though no flux is listed, the map has 169513 units of marble in it. It might be that the finder doesnt show flux unless there is a flux layer. That don't mean there is not flux however.

(0016801) Neowulf (reporter) 2011-03-30 10:13	.25 here, 16x16 embark over an area reported by the site finder to be containing flux. Checked with both prospector and reveal, no flux found. I have yet to actually find flux in .25

(0016848) Granite26 (reporter) 2011-03-31 05:59	Is it possible the listing is backwards? It says flux but means no flux?

(0017157) Doskei (reporter) 2011-04-07 07:16	Sorry about the duplicate bug report, I'm new to this. I'll add my data here instead: https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AsZU1AdPbE5CdEpBd2Ryb1cyanJpQktJUExjVG9LYnc&hl=en&authkey=CJHXvvcO [^] That's the results of my quick testing. Each of those sites was chosen BY dwarf fortress. I never moved or changed the size of the embarkation area from the first result found, and I ALWAYS had Flux set to Yes when searching. There are two (out of 8) sites with zero flux, and in general the total amounts are tiny (always under 100). That's compared to an average Iron Ore total of 860 (Standard Deviation of 563, so BIG error bars). During testing I had MINERAL SCARCITY set to 150 to get what should be fantastic embarkation points.

(0020278) Moleculor (reporter) 2012-02-20 11:49	Still exists as of 34.02.

(0020405) HammerDave (reporter) 2012-02-21 12:44	I have noticed many occasions where the finder gave me a green for go indicator on the region, but after embark there was no flux to be found. From observations only, and thus not terribly scientific, I'm thinking that it's reporting there is flux for several conditions where the flux isn't really there any more. They all amount to, it was there originally but is gone now. 1. It's near the bottom, and got replaced by intrusive igneous or it got metamorphed by the volcanic activity or melted into the magma sea. 2. It's in the cavern zone, and was all eroded away by cavern creation. 3. It's on the surface, but has been eroded away. Or it has been replaced by soil. Anecdotally it seems quite possible that a layer can be flux (ie limestone) and finder will report the existence of a flux layer, even if there is no stone remaining that is native to the layer itself.

(0020959) M_So (reporter) 2012-03-01 10:48	(Slightly off topic) Would be nice if the site finder told you if it was 'Deep Flux, Shallow Flux, etc.' since it is almost as important as metal. (if not more so)

(0020961) Dwarfu (manager) 2012-03-01 10:52	Reminder sent to: M_So Please post replies that are directly related to the report. Post suggestions on the appropriate forum: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?board=5.0 [^]

(0021188) Linkeron (reporter) 2012-03-06 14:51 edited on: 2012-03-09 07:57	Issue persists in 34.05 EDIT: Under all 'Medium' world gen parameters, flux stone seems to properly be generated and displayed at embark screen. EDIT2: But at the actual site, no flux t be found anywhere.