0002907: Justice beatings frequently cause death via compound fracture of the skull

(0011638)
mister_a_guy (reporter)
2010-08-08 14:42
edited on: 2010-08-08 14:49

Getting this too. Tried putting steel helmets on all the criminals, but it seems to do little against the onslaught.

(0011642)
Cryten (reporter)
2010-08-08 18:14
edited on: 2010-08-08 18:19

Try giving him a training weapon to get the 50% damage reduction. Hmm I don't know if this would classify as a suggestion for a tweak to a feature or as a bug from the feature going overboard.

(0011703)
Kumquat (reporter)
2010-08-10 15:12

Although the way the message reads, it sounds like creatures had their brain wrapped around the skull and not the other way round...

(0011708)
kwieland (reporter)
2010-08-10 19:30

Beatings resulting in death was a common occurrence in 40d. Armor didn't do anything in 40d. Typically you wanted a captain of the guard (or hammerer) that was a weakling. Alternatively, I took to just not assigning one.

(0011804)
hyndis (reporter)
2010-08-15 02:50

Seeing this as well. Gave the dwarf a featherwood training sword, appointed her captain of the guard, and she promptly went off and smashed the brain of her own mother with it while trying to administer a beating.

The captain of the guard then went insane and went berserk with her featherwood training sword. Luckily I had a herd of grizzly bears hanging out in my meeting hall.

Before braining her own mother (I should probably not appoint dwarves with serious mother issues to being captain of the guard in the future) she went on a spree of breaking fingers with her wooden training sword. Including several compound fractures.

(0011806)
knofbath (reporter)
2010-08-15 04:57

All hits to the head seem to be fatal critical hits. I had a military dwarf beat a craftsdwarf to death with a crossbow. Cause of death was a blow to the head. All I got was a combat report and the message a dwarf died.

Mine seemed to be just a random beating. It shows under the dwarf's kill list, but its not listed in the justice screen.

(0016360)
kwieland (reporter)
2011-03-18 19:01

In my most recent game I had a blind Ogre crawl up from the depths below and attack my fort. All my dwarfs were training, so I sent 20 dwarfs to attack with wooden training axes and swords. The fight was terrible. All yellow, but the Ogre healed faster than the damage was being done. Several times the wounds would go from yellow to white again! Dwarfs were starving and dehydrated because the battle was lasting a long time! Since the Ogre was content to chew on a dog, I changed their weapons and *poof* the Ogre died quickly.

Now, contrast that to the justice administered by my sheriff with the same training weapon - a sword. One hit to the head with the pommel and the dwarf dies. Perhaps this is a balancing issue.

(0017887)
malvado (reporter)
2011-05-28 17:59

I actually doubt that the justice system is supposed to cause the death of civilian workers if they fail to produce something. As far as I recall your fortress is not directly Evil or Good (should depend on your playstyle).

So if any "criminals" actually get beaten up, it would be better if they would get at most fractures and would have to stay in the hospital for a good while (which would solve medical training problems).

I guess there should also be more dwarven criminal behaviour in the future (murder , theft , vandalism etc etc).

(0024271)
smjjames (reporter)
2014-01-15 06:16

@footkerchief: Yeah this should definetly be fixed, or at least mitigated in the next version.

(0034904)
Scamps (reporter)
2016-03-22 23:07

Version 42.06, a 5 years old dwarven child killed a forgotten beast with a single punch in the head. No fighting skills at all, no weapon, beast's head was not injured earlier.

(0034906)
PatrikLundell (reporter)
2016-03-23 01:11

And I assume the FB was a "normal" one made of flesh and blood, rather than the flimsy types that fall apart when touched (like flame, water, etc)?

Issue History
Date Modified	Username	Field	Change
2010-07-31 10:17	greycat	New Issue
2010-08-08 14:42	mister_a_guy	Note Added: 0011638
2010-08-08 14:46	Footkerchief	Category	Combat -- General => Dwarf Mode -- Justice
2010-08-08 14:46	Footkerchief	Summary	Punches to the head are too deadly => Justice beatings frequently cause death via compound fracture of the skull
2010-08-08 14:49	mister_a_guy	Note Edited: 0011638	View Revisions
2010-08-08 18:14	Cryten	Note Added: 0011642
2010-08-08 18:19	Cryten	Note Edited: 0011642	View Revisions
2010-08-10 15:12	Kumquat	Note Added: 0011703
2010-08-10 19:30	kwieland	Note Added: 0011708
2010-08-15 02:50	hyndis	Note Added: 0011804
2010-08-15 04:57	knofbath	Note Added: 0011806
2010-08-16 00:21	knofbath	Issue Monitored: knofbath
2010-11-21 12:32	Footkerchief	Tag Attached: Intentional/Expected?
2010-11-21 12:32	Footkerchief	Relationship added	related to 0001016
2011-03-18 19:01	kwieland	Note Added: 0016360
2011-05-28 17:59	malvado	Note Added: 0017887
2014-01-13 09:34	Footkerchief	Tag Attached: Fixed in 0.34.12?
2014-01-15 06:16	smjjames	Note Added: 0024271
2014-07-07 22:23	Footkerchief	Tag Renamed	Fixed in 0.34.12? => Fixed in 0.40.01?
2015-12-10 20:54	Calite	Issue Monitored: Calite
2016-03-22 23:07	Scamps	Note Added: 0034904
2016-03-23 01:11	PatrikLundell	Note Added: 0034906

Notes
(0011638) mister_a_guy (reporter) 2010-08-08 14:42 edited on: 2010-08-08 14:49	Getting this too. Tried putting steel helmets on all the criminals, but it seems to do little against the onslaught.

(0011642) Cryten (reporter) 2010-08-08 18:14 edited on: 2010-08-08 18:19	Try giving him a training weapon to get the 50% damage reduction. Hmm I don't know if this would classify as a suggestion for a tweak to a feature or as a bug from the feature going overboard.

(0011703) Kumquat (reporter) 2010-08-10 15:12	Although the way the message reads, it sounds like creatures had their brain wrapped around the skull and not the other way round...

(0011708) kwieland (reporter) 2010-08-10 19:30	Beatings resulting in death was a common occurrence in 40d. Armor didn't do anything in 40d. Typically you wanted a captain of the guard (or hammerer) that was a weakling. Alternatively, I took to just not assigning one.

(0011804) hyndis (reporter) 2010-08-15 02:50	Seeing this as well. Gave the dwarf a featherwood training sword, appointed her captain of the guard, and she promptly went off and smashed the brain of her own mother with it while trying to administer a beating. The captain of the guard then went insane and went berserk with her featherwood training sword. Luckily I had a herd of grizzly bears hanging out in my meeting hall. Before braining her own mother (I should probably not appoint dwarves with serious mother issues to being captain of the guard in the future) she went on a spree of breaking fingers with her wooden training sword. Including several compound fractures.

(0011806) knofbath (reporter) 2010-08-15 04:57	All hits to the head seem to be fatal critical hits. I had a military dwarf beat a craftsdwarf to death with a crossbow. Cause of death was a blow to the head. All I got was a combat report and the message a dwarf died. Mine seemed to be just a random beating. It shows under the dwarf's kill list, but its not listed in the justice screen.

(0016360) kwieland (reporter) 2011-03-18 19:01	In my most recent game I had a blind Ogre crawl up from the depths below and attack my fort. All my dwarfs were training, so I sent 20 dwarfs to attack with wooden training axes and swords. The fight was terrible. All yellow, but the Ogre healed faster than the damage was being done. Several times the wounds would go from yellow to white again! Dwarfs were starving and dehydrated because the battle was lasting a long time! Since the Ogre was content to chew on a dog, I changed their weapons and poof the Ogre died quickly. Now, contrast that to the justice administered by my sheriff with the same training weapon - a sword. One hit to the head with the pommel and the dwarf dies. Perhaps this is a balancing issue.

(0017887) malvado (reporter) 2011-05-28 17:59	I actually doubt that the justice system is supposed to cause the death of civilian workers if they fail to produce something. As far as I recall your fortress is not directly Evil or Good (should depend on your playstyle). So if any "criminals" actually get beaten up, it would be better if they would get at most fractures and would have to stay in the hospital for a good while (which would solve medical training problems). I guess there should also be more dwarven criminal behaviour in the future (murder , theft , vandalism etc etc).

(0024271) smjjames (reporter) 2014-01-15 06:16	@footkerchief: Yeah this should definetly be fixed, or at least mitigated in the next version.

(0034904) Scamps (reporter) 2016-03-22 23:07	Version 42.06, a 5 years old dwarven child killed a forgotten beast with a single punch in the head. No fighting skills at all, no weapon, beast's head was not injured earlier.

(0034906) PatrikLundell (reporter) 2016-03-23 01:11	And I assume the FB was a "normal" one made of flesh and blood, rather than the flimsy types that fall apart when touched (like flame, water, etc)?