0003453: Baron/etc. cannot appoint baron-appointed nobles, such as the Tax Collector

(0013466)
Rhenaya (reporter)
2010-10-22 08:03

normally you should get a diplomat visiting your fort and you can choose one of your own to make him baron (no migrated nobles anymore)

however, that dungeonmaster etc are still missing, is a known bug

(0013469)
Quietust (reporter)
2010-10-22 09:26
edited on: 2010-10-22 09:31

Rhenaya: I'm not talking about getting the Baron itself (and thus this is completely unrelated to 0000519) - I'm talking how about after you have a Baron (or Count or Duke), you cannot appoint nobles which are specified as being appointed by the Baron (or Count or Duke).

The "dungeonmaster etc are still missing" is exactly what I'm reporting here - while it may be a "known bug", it was never actually reported on this bug tracker until now (seemingly, every report has been either on the wiki or in the forums).

(0013471)
Logical2u (manager)
2010-10-22 11:31
edited on: 2010-10-22 11:32

It's been previously reported that the dungeon master isn't missing, it's just broken. The fact that barons can't appoint them is a bug, which is probably related to the fact that liaisons resulting in barons are kind of broken, and it used to be a liaison sort of thing that resulted in these fellows showing up.

(0016582)
Orkel2 (reporter)
2011-03-25 11:35

Still in .22, hope it's fixed soon.

(0016735)
deathc4 (reporter)
2011-03-28 14:07

Dont wanna play until the noble stuff is fixed....=(

FIX IT! FIX IT! FIX IT! FIX IT! FIX IT! FIX IT! FIX IT! FIX IT!

(0016737)
Quietust (reporter)
2011-03-28 14:27

deathc4: I'm not sure how that sort of comment is supposed to help...

(0017217)
Kogut (reporter)
2011-04-09 00:23

still in .25

(0017590)
Rayanth (reporter)
2011-04-30 17:50

I believe this issue is with the Baron, not the Dungeon Master.

-- mod the entity_default raw file, changing the Dungeon master entry to be appointed by mayor and expedition leader instead of baron/count/duke
-- generate a new world
-- embark
-- dungeon master is appointable immediately after embark, by expedition leader.

So it's not that the game is refusing to allow dungeon masters to be appointed... it seems more like it's not recognizing baron/duke/count as able to appoint them. Further testing, by creating a new position appointed by Baron (in a new world) and seeing if they are appointable, might shed more insight.

(0017905)
Fthagen (reporter)
2011-05-30 16:14

I can confirm that Rayanth's method functions.

I made the Dungeon Master, the Hammerer and the Tax Collector appointed by the mayor. As soon as a mayor got elected, I was able to appoint them, while I was unable to do so in an un-modded game.

I am playing in version .25, and I generated the world after I made the fix.

(0018582)
Frogwarrior (reporter)
2011-08-20 09:06

If I had to guess, I'd say that the game doesn't allow you to appoint nobles who are appointed by nobles who are THEMSELVES appointed. Meaning because the Monarch appoints the Baron/Count/Duke, the B/C/D cannot appoint anyone.

Best way to test this would, I think, make a position appointed by the expedition leader and another position appointed by that.

(0018583)
Knight Otu (manager)
2011-08-20 09:49
edited on: 2011-08-20 10:50

That kind of position already exists - the expedition leader appoints militia commanders, who then appoints militia captains. Since that works, it can't be that appointed positions can't appoint others.

Edit - as a different method from Rayath's, I made the *baron* etc appointable by the expedition leader and mayor (which kind of bugged out as I could appoint all of them right from the start), and I was able to appoint the Dungeon Master and co once I ennobled a dwarf. Edit edit - which leads me to believe that the absence of the king from the settlement is the culprit, and the lack of an appointing position translates downwards - the baron may think that since the position that appointed him isn't there, he has no authority to do any appointing himself.

(0018584)
danaris (reporter)
2011-08-20 11:04

Knight Otu and Fthagen:

Were you then able to tame exotics with the Dungeon Master, once he was appointed?

~ TGC

(0018585)
Quietust (reporter)
2011-08-20 11:08

Knight Otu: unfortunately, the arrival of the King at your fortress does not cause this problem to go away - I've got a 0.31.15 fortress (running in 0.31.25) where both the King and Duke are present, but I cannot appoint any other positions.

(0018586)
Knight Otu (manager)
2011-08-20 11:16

Thanks, Quietust. So there are still other factors that work against the appointing.

danaris, I didn't even try that. Others have tested similar fixes and didn't find them to work.

(0018957)
Igfig2 (reporter)
2011-11-06 07:18

Just curious: do champions still work correctly? Champions are appointed by the baron/count/duke, after all. The only obvious differences I can see between champions and the problematic positions are that champions don't have SLEEP_PRETENSION or room requirements.

Also, what about generals? There's only one of them per civilization, but can you assign a new one if the old one dies?

(0018971)
Dwarfu (manager)
2011-11-10 02:27

FYI

The Hammerer position has been rewritten into a new framework to function as an appointed noble from the beginning, so that portion of this bug report won't be fixed as it stood at the time.

http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/index.html#2011-11-09 [^]

(0021218)
Dwarfu (manager)
2012-03-07 08:10

The Dungeon Master position is out and the taming framework is being rewritten, so that portion of this report is resolved.

http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/index.html#2011-06-30 [^]

That only leaves the Tax Collector.

(0021362)
Toady One (administrator)
2012-03-11 07:22

The tax collector is nuked with the DM, and I'm not sure where that's going to go in the future, so it's more of an unfinished feature. However, there was a definite bug with baron appointments, and that has been resolved now. When the baron arrives, you'll be able to appoint a champion as before (if it ever worked in any version...).

Issue History
Date Modified	Username	Field	Change
2010-10-22 07:52	Quietust	New Issue
2010-10-22 08:03	Rhenaya	Note Added: 0013466
2010-10-22 08:21	Logical2u	Relationship added	related to 0000519
2010-10-22 09:26	Quietust	Note Added: 0013469
2010-10-22 09:27	Quietust	Note Edited: 0013469	View Revisions
2010-10-22 09:31	Quietust	Note Edited: 0013469	View Revisions
2010-10-22 09:42	Hieronymous Alloy	Issue Monitored: Hieronymous Alloy
2010-10-22 10:22	Barbarossa	Issue Monitored: Barbarossa
2010-10-22 11:31	Logical2u	Note Added: 0013471
2010-10-22 11:32	Logical2u	Note Edited: 0013471	View Revisions
2010-10-22 11:32	Logical2u	Relationship added	related to 0002036
2010-11-05 09:22	endrin	Issue Monitored: endrin
2010-11-17 00:07	Khym Chanur	Issue Monitored: Khym Chanur
2010-12-13 11:32	Etheldreda	Issue Monitored: Etheldreda
2010-12-31 20:16	Dwarfu	Relationship added	has duplicate 0003860
2011-01-13 22:19	nb4est	Issue Monitored: nb4est
2011-02-18 06:23	xrogaan	Issue Monitored: xrogaan
2011-02-24 14:52	Glacial	Issue Monitored: Glacial
2011-03-02 07:42	Footkerchief	Summary	Baron/etc. cannot appoint baron-appointed nobles => Baron/etc. cannot appoint baron-appointed nobles, such as the Dungeon Master
2011-03-06 15:59	Another	Issue Monitored: Another
2011-03-13 12:50	throwerofstones	Issue Monitored: throwerofstones
2011-03-20 14:17	Malibu Stacey	Issue Monitored: Malibu Stacey
2011-03-25 11:35	Orkel2	Note Added: 0016582
2011-03-28 12:09	Ullallulloo	Issue Monitored: Ullallulloo
2011-03-28 14:07	deathc4	Note Added: 0016735
2011-03-28 14:27	Quietust	Note Added: 0016737
2011-03-28 14:35	Footkerchief	Sticky Issue	No => Yes
2011-04-03 15:23	Rhenaya	Issue Monitored: Rhenaya
2011-04-05 11:35	Dekon	Issue Monitored: Dekon
2011-04-08 22:37	deathc4	Issue Monitored: deathc4
2011-04-09 00:23	Kogut	Note Added: 0017217
2011-04-30 17:50	Rayanth	Note Added: 0017590
2011-05-30 16:14	Fthagen	Note Added: 0017905
2011-07-09 18:01	Beeskee	Issue Monitored: Beeskee
2011-07-22 17:09	Vherid	Issue Monitored: Vherid
2011-08-20 09:06	Frogwarrior	Note Added: 0018582
2011-08-20 09:49	Knight Otu	Note Added: 0018583
2011-08-20 10:45	Knight Otu	Note Edited: 0018583	View Revisions
2011-08-20 10:50	Knight Otu	Note Edited: 0018583	View Revisions
2011-08-20 11:04	danaris	Note Added: 0018584
2011-08-20 11:08	Quietust	Note Added: 0018585
2011-08-20 11:16	Knight Otu	Note Added: 0018586
2011-09-02 10:23	Morrolan	Issue Monitored: Morrolan
2011-09-02 12:11	Telarin	Issue Monitored: Telarin
2011-11-06 07:18	Igfig2	Note Added: 0018957
2011-11-10 02:27	Dwarfu	Note Added: 0018971
2012-01-06 17:44	Morlark	Issue Monitored: Morlark
2012-02-26 11:46	Buglist	Issue Monitored: Buglist
2012-03-07 08:10	Dwarfu	Note Added: 0021218
2012-03-07 08:13	Dwarfu	Summary	Baron/etc. cannot appoint baron-appointed nobles, such as the Dungeon Master => Baron/etc. cannot appoint baron-appointed nobles, such as the Tax Collector
2012-03-11 07:22	Toady One	Note Added: 0021362
2012-03-11 07:22	Toady One	Status	new => resolved
2012-03-11 07:22	Toady One	Fixed in Version	=> Next Version
2012-03-11 07:22	Toady One	Resolution	open => fixed
2012-03-11 07:22	Toady One	Assigned To	=> Toady One
2012-03-11 09:49	Dwarfu	Sticky Issue	Yes => No
2012-03-12 07:39	Telarin	Issue End Monitor: Telarin
2012-03-13 04:35	Buglist	Issue End Monitor: Buglist
2012-03-19 17:29	Vherid	Issue End Monitor: Vherid
2012-03-27 09:24	Rhenaya	Issue End Monitor: Rhenaya
2012-05-28 17:52	Morrolan	Issue End Monitor: Morrolan
2012-06-24 18:09	Morlark	Issue End Monitor: Morlark
2012-07-05 06:45	Malibu Stacey	Issue End Monitor: Malibu Stacey
2012-11-27 18:20	nb4est	Issue End Monitor: nb4est

Notes
(0013466) Rhenaya (reporter) 2010-10-22 08:03	normally you should get a diplomat visiting your fort and you can choose one of your own to make him baron (no migrated nobles anymore) however, that dungeonmaster etc are still missing, is a known bug

(0013469) Quietust (reporter) 2010-10-22 09:26 edited on: 2010-10-22 09:31	Rhenaya: I'm not talking about getting the Baron itself (and thus this is completely unrelated to 0000519) - I'm talking how about after you have a Baron (or Count or Duke), you cannot appoint nobles which are specified as being appointed by the Baron (or Count or Duke). The "dungeonmaster etc are still missing" is exactly what I'm reporting here - while it may be a "known bug", it was never actually reported on this bug tracker until now (seemingly, every report has been either on the wiki or in the forums).

(0013471) Logical2u (manager) 2010-10-22 11:31 edited on: 2010-10-22 11:32	It's been previously reported that the dungeon master isn't missing, it's just broken. The fact that barons can't appoint them is a bug, which is probably related to the fact that liaisons resulting in barons are kind of broken, and it used to be a liaison sort of thing that resulted in these fellows showing up.

(0016582) Orkel2 (reporter) 2011-03-25 11:35	Still in .22, hope it's fixed soon.

(0016735) deathc4 (reporter) 2011-03-28 14:07	Dont wanna play until the noble stuff is fixed....=( FIX IT! FIX IT! FIX IT! FIX IT! FIX IT! FIX IT! FIX IT! FIX IT!

(0016737) Quietust (reporter) 2011-03-28 14:27	deathc4: I'm not sure how that sort of comment is supposed to help...

(0017217) Kogut (reporter) 2011-04-09 00:23	still in .25

(0017590) Rayanth (reporter) 2011-04-30 17:50	I believe this issue is with the Baron, not the Dungeon Master. -- mod the entity_default raw file, changing the Dungeon master entry to be appointed by mayor and expedition leader instead of baron/count/duke -- generate a new world -- embark -- dungeon master is appointable immediately after embark, by expedition leader. So it's not that the game is refusing to allow dungeon masters to be appointed... it seems more like it's not recognizing baron/duke/count as able to appoint them. Further testing, by creating a new position appointed by Baron (in a new world) and seeing if they are appointable, might shed more insight.

(0017905) Fthagen (reporter) 2011-05-30 16:14	I can confirm that Rayanth's method functions. I made the Dungeon Master, the Hammerer and the Tax Collector appointed by the mayor. As soon as a mayor got elected, I was able to appoint them, while I was unable to do so in an un-modded game. I am playing in version .25, and I generated the world after I made the fix.

(0018582) Frogwarrior (reporter) 2011-08-20 09:06	If I had to guess, I'd say that the game doesn't allow you to appoint nobles who are appointed by nobles who are THEMSELVES appointed. Meaning because the Monarch appoints the Baron/Count/Duke, the B/C/D cannot appoint anyone. Best way to test this would, I think, make a position appointed by the expedition leader and another position appointed by that.

(0018583) Knight Otu (manager) 2011-08-20 09:49 edited on: 2011-08-20 10:50	That kind of position already exists - the expedition leader appoints militia commanders, who then appoints militia captains. Since that works, it can't be that appointed positions can't appoint others. Edit - as a different method from Rayath's, I made the baron etc appointable by the expedition leader and mayor (which kind of bugged out as I could appoint all of them right from the start), and I was able to appoint the Dungeon Master and co once I ennobled a dwarf. Edit edit - which leads me to believe that the absence of the king from the settlement is the culprit, and the lack of an appointing position translates downwards - the baron may think that since the position that appointed him isn't there, he has no authority to do any appointing himself.

(0018584) danaris (reporter) 2011-08-20 11:04	Knight Otu and Fthagen: Were you then able to tame exotics with the Dungeon Master, once he was appointed? ~ TGC

(0018585) Quietust (reporter) 2011-08-20 11:08	Knight Otu: unfortunately, the arrival of the King at your fortress does not cause this problem to go away - I've got a 0.31.15 fortress (running in 0.31.25) where both the King and Duke are present, but I cannot appoint any other positions.

(0018586) Knight Otu (manager) 2011-08-20 11:16	Thanks, Quietust. So there are still other factors that work against the appointing. danaris, I didn't even try that. Others have tested similar fixes and didn't find them to work.

(0018957) Igfig2 (reporter) 2011-11-06 07:18	Just curious: do champions still work correctly? Champions are appointed by the baron/count/duke, after all. The only obvious differences I can see between champions and the problematic positions are that champions don't have SLEEP_PRETENSION or room requirements. Also, what about generals? There's only one of them per civilization, but can you assign a new one if the old one dies?

(0018971) Dwarfu (manager) 2011-11-10 02:27	FYI The Hammerer position has been rewritten into a new framework to function as an appointed noble from the beginning, so that portion of this bug report won't be fixed as it stood at the time. http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/index.html#2011-11-09 [^]

(0021218) Dwarfu (manager) 2012-03-07 08:10	The Dungeon Master position is out and the taming framework is being rewritten, so that portion of this report is resolved. http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/index.html#2011-06-30 [^] That only leaves the Tax Collector.

(0021362) Toady One (administrator) 2012-03-11 07:22	The tax collector is nuked with the DM, and I'm not sure where that's going to go in the future, so it's more of an unfinished feature. However, there was a definite bug with baron appointments, and that has been resolved now. When the baron arrives, you'll be able to appoint a champion as before (if it ever worked in any version...).