0004611: Monarch arrived - is goblin. - Dwarf Fortress Bug Tracker

Notes
(0017618) Logical2u (manager) 2011-05-04 05:49	Was the goblin assimilated by your civilization? You should check this in the Legends mode. If it was, it's entirely expected.

(0017619) raveturned (reporter) 2011-05-04 06:04	I'm probably being dense here, but is it possible to get to Legends mode on a region running a fortress, or do I have to abandon it first?

(0017620) Quietust (reporter) 2011-05-04 06:10	You have to abandon first - just make a backup copy of your Region folder beforehand.

(0017621) raveturned (reporter) 2011-05-04 06:34	Interesting. Legends notes that the goblin in question (Reg Boltedportals) became queen of my civ in 208. Looking at the Historical Figures record for Queen Reg shows: --- Reg Boltedportals was a goblin born in 29. She was of unknown parentage. In 208, Reg becomes the queen of The Pulley of Flight. In the midspring of 208, Reg confronted Olingo Timeplague. [...etc...] --- I don't really know how histories work in DF, but there's no record of assimilation into the dwarven civ. Also I'd have assumed even an assimilated goblin would need to do something pretty special to reach the rank of monarch. :/ Also possibly of note - when viewing units in fortress mode the Queen did not show up with a standard activity as other dwarfs did, but with "Tame" like an animal. I know nobels can be a bit useless, but is that right?

(0017622) Parker147 (reporter) 2011-05-04 07:27	Probably related to 0003771 I'm guessing that Reg came to power after confronting and dueling Olingo Timeplague in 208, which sounds like another goblin by the name. So you might have to trace the leadership back some to see where the initial goblin came into power. I also think this happens a lot more now because races can intermingle in other civ's site populations and sometimes these populations get chosen to be leaders? I know I have seen an elven civ taken over by both humans and goblins at different times.

(0017624) raveturned (reporter) 2011-05-04 08:11 edited on: 2011-05-04 08:18	So in that case Legends is recording the duel for the monarchy after the fact that she became monarch? Interesting, investigating further... Yes Olngo (I typoed his name earlier, sorry) is a male goblin, but the fight doesn't seem to be related to the succession as Olngo was never king. There do seem to be earlier goblin monarchs though... actually a variety of combinations of dwarven and goblin monarchs and generals back until 194. --- In 194, the goblin Olin Bentlances became the general of the Pulley of Flight In 194, the goblin Sarvesh Claspglaze became the king of the Pulley of Flight --- Again neither goblin has any recorded personal history before being appointed to their posts (both are listed as "one of the first of his/her kind"), though they did marry each other in the same year. The civilization they are members of (The Scabrous Doom) seems to have been at war with the Pulley of Flight since year 40, and continued to be at war even after goblins came to the throne. Can invading civs install their own monarchs? If so, why would it have taken nearly 150 years to do so (the Pulley of Flight seem to have been defeated and their capital pillaged by the Scabrous Doom many times in this period). Also, why would the SD continue to invade even after they have pupet rulers on the throne? Is any of this related to the goblin monarch not behaving like other workers in Fortress mode, or is that just as a result of her race?

(0017625) Knight Otu (manager) 2011-05-04 09:13	"She was of unknown parentage." Assuming that you didn't use historical figure culling, that means that Reg was elevated from the "faceless masses" of entity populations, presumably because there was no able historical dwarf to become monarch. Reg I believe is a Dwarven name, so she should be part of a goblin population that immigrated into your civilization. That isn't noted in legends mode, but the text exports (p) show the populations of different creatures at each site. The behavior of your queen in fortress mode is a known bug (or at least a close variation) with nondwarven monarchs, though I'm not sure if it's actually been reported on the tracker yet.

(0017633) Rhenaya (reporter) 2011-05-05 07:05	turn off "cull unimportant" and you will see much more history for some individuals, also the assimilation is site related and not unit specific, so it can occur that in wars a site get changed owners and some of the survivors will just be in the new civ... this make them accountable for all posts too. this stuff happens more frequent with babysnatcher civs that are not immortal (like goblins), cause in such civs other entity creatures will take over more frequent (if i turn on babysnachting for my drows, 1 of 3 civs end up with an foreign creature as highpriest and/or matriarch, goblins seem to get ahold of their title longer or give it up for demons)

(0017680) raveturned (reporter) 2011-05-10 05:14	I don't think I've changed any options from their default state. Are historical figure culling/cull unimportant world-gen options or can I turn them off for the world I already have?

(0017681) Knight Otu (manager) 2011-05-10 07:46	Culling historical figures is a worldgen option. You can export your worldgen options from play on the Esc menu with the Export local image option (or similar name), or from Legends mode with 'p'. They'll be in a file called (something)-world_gen_param.txt. If you have a line [CULL_HISTORICAL_FIGURES:1], then you did cull historical figures. You can use the information in that file to recreate your world with the relevant option changed.

(0017689) raveturned (reporter) 2011-05-11 03:42	Thanks Otu. I exported worldgen options from Legends mode and found CULL_HISTORICAL_FIGURES was set to 0. I guess that means you were right about Reg being elevated from goblins who had immigrated into the population. I wonder if that's related to the wars with that civilization, or a separate event entirely. It would seem odd for a group of migrants from a warring civ to just move in if it wasn't as part of some sort of occupation. I can see how it could happen if the code simulating migration didn't explicitly check the hostility of the nations involved, but then it would seem odd that someone from a distrusted civ would be picked to assume the throne. Perhaps those dwarves are more tolerant than us humans. :)

(0027641) Dwarfu (manager) 2014-07-26 12:45	Given that invasions, etc, produce these results in normal play, this is intended. The child report on the tame human monarch probably needs to be looked at, though.

Issue History
Date Modified	Username	Field	Change
2011-05-04 05:36	raveturned	New Issue
2011-05-04 05:49	Logical2u	Note Added: 0017618
2011-05-04 05:50	Logical2u	Tag Attached: AWAITING UPDATE
2011-05-04 05:59	raveturned	Issue Monitored: raveturned
2011-05-04 06:04	raveturned	Note Added: 0017619
2011-05-04 06:10	Quietust	Note Added: 0017620
2011-05-04 06:34	raveturned	Note Added: 0017621
2011-05-04 07:27	Parker147	Note Added: 0017622
2011-05-04 08:11	raveturned	Note Added: 0017624
2011-05-04 08:18	raveturned	Note Edited: 0017624	View Revisions
2011-05-04 09:13	Knight Otu	Note Added: 0017625
2011-05-05 07:05	Rhenaya	Note Added: 0017633
2011-05-10 05:14	raveturned	Note Added: 0017680
2011-05-10 07:46	Knight Otu	Note Added: 0017681
2011-05-11 03:42	raveturned	Note Added: 0017689
2011-06-08 09:33	Dwarfu	Relationship added	parent of 0004692
2012-07-27 01:33	Knight Otu	Relationship added	related to 0006135
2012-07-27 12:12	Knight Otu	Relationship replaced	has duplicate 0006135
2014-01-20 18:58	Footkerchief	Tag Detached: AWAITING UPDATE
2014-07-26 12:45	Dwarfu	Note Added: 0027641
2014-07-26 12:45	Dwarfu	Status	new => resolved
2014-07-26 12:45	Dwarfu	Resolution	open => no change required
2014-07-26 12:45	Dwarfu	Assigned To	=> Dwarfu
2014-08-21 12:51	Footkerchief	Relationship replaced	related to 0004692