0000712: Woodcutters cut trees with training axes

(0002022)
SirPenguin (reporter)
2010-04-08 07:23

Just confirming this on my own end, as I was about to report it myself.

(0002031)
DoctorZuber (reporter)
2010-04-08 08:13
edited on: 2010-04-08 08:14

quickly confirmed this by embarking with only training axes. very amusing.

Odds are one of you clever dwarves can even isolate this one in a raw file if you like. ;)

(0010628)
Telarin (reporter)
2010-07-19 06:40

Confirmed in 0.31.10 as well.

(0010635)
smjjames (reporter)
2010-07-19 07:51

My woodcutter/carpenter used the wood training axe just fine. Not sure if it were a bit slower than with a metal axe, but, yea.

As strange as this whole thing sounds, I think this could be kept as a feature since I don't know of a way to keep a particular type of axe as not being useable for woodcutting.

(0010654)
Rhenaya (reporter)
2010-07-19 10:41

its because they use any [CLASS:AXE] weapon for woodcutting, even funnier its if you civ can use halberds... a solution would be to add [WOODCUTTING:BATTLE_AXE] into the raws just like the pick is [DIGGER:PICK] (i know its a longer id but you know what i mean)

(0010663)
smjjames (reporter)
2010-07-19 12:40

How would it still distinguish from a training battle axe and a metal one?

(0013081)
nshapter (reporter)
2010-09-30 08:41

IRL a Battle Axe would not be the tool of choice for wood cutting. Is a training axe definitely just an axe shaped Bokken or maybe a flint hatchet or what?

It makes sense to have wood cutting tools that are not (strictly speaking) weapons.

Dwarves need saws.

(0013082)
Quietust (reporter)
2010-09-30 09:29
edited on: 2010-09-30 09:31

smjjames: "training axes" and "battle axes" are completely different weapons - one has the ID "ITEM_WEAPON_AXE_TRAINING" and has only BLUNT attacks, while the other has the ID "ITEM_WEAPON_AXE_BATTLE" and has an EDGE attack.

All training weapons have the [TRAINING] token (which is what allows them to be made by carpenters instead of by weaponsmiths), which could probably be used to prevent them from being used by wood cutters.

(0013083)
Malibu Stacey (reporter)
2010-09-30 09:37

That's epic. Nice bug to exploit for saving embark points. I doubt the material or quality of the axe used to cut trees down will make any difference to how quickly a Woodcutter fells a tree. Actually I'd be surprised if the skill of the dwarf makes any difference either.

A proper fix would be to create a new axe type specifically for woodcutting purposes & leave battle axes as is, just removing their ability to be used for woodcutting.

(0015066)
tatterdemalian (reporter)
2011-02-08 18:14

Hey, it could be like that other game where you punch trees...

Seriously, though, there are enough specialized equipment types in the game, and each one seems to cause more bugs with each new release. Maybe if aspects of tools and weapons were consolidated or simplified somehow, it would be easier to introduce such variants.

(0021902)
Kogut (reporter)
2012-03-30 05:37

Confirmed in 0.34.06 as well.

(0033004)
Shimrod (reporter)
2015-08-28 09:23

Still present in 0.40.24.

Issue History
Date Modified	Username	Field	Change
2010-04-07 05:59	Jiri Petru	New Issue
2010-04-08 07:23	SirPenguin	Note Added: 0002022
2010-04-08 08:13	DoctorZuber	Note Added: 0002031
2010-04-08 08:14	DoctorZuber	Note Edited: 0002031	View Revisions
2010-07-19 06:40	Telarin	Note Added: 0010628
2010-07-19 07:08	Footkerchief	Relationship added	related to 0000535
2010-07-19 07:51	smjjames	Note Added: 0010635
2010-07-19 10:41	Rhenaya	Note Added: 0010654
2010-07-19 12:40	smjjames	Note Added: 0010663
2010-09-30 08:41	nshapter	Note Added: 0013081
2010-09-30 09:29	Quietust	Note Added: 0013082
2010-09-30 09:31	Quietust	Note Edited: 0013082	View Revisions
2010-09-30 09:37	Malibu Stacey	Note Added: 0013083
2010-10-09 07:19	Dwarfu	Relationship added	has duplicate 0003393
2011-02-07 12:53	Hieronymous Alloy	Issue Monitored: Hieronymous Alloy
2011-02-08 18:14	tatterdemalian	Note Added: 0015066
2011-02-28 21:43	Footkerchief	Relationship added	related to 0001451
2011-02-28 21:43	Footkerchief	Relationship deleted	related to 0000535
2012-03-30 05:37	Kogut	Note Added: 0021902
2015-08-28 09:23	Shimrod	Note Added: 0033004
2015-09-02 11:06	lethosor	Assigned To	=> lethosor
2015-09-02 11:06	lethosor	Status	new => confirmed
2015-09-02 11:07	lethosor	Issue Monitored: Toady One
2016-05-18 13:59	Toady One	Status	confirmed => resolved
2016-05-18 13:59	Toady One	Fixed in Version	=> Next Version
2016-05-18 13:59	Toady One	Resolution	open => fixed
2016-05-18 13:59	Toady One	Assigned To	lethosor => Toady One

Notes
(0002022) SirPenguin (reporter) 2010-04-08 07:23	Just confirming this on my own end, as I was about to report it myself.

(0002031) DoctorZuber (reporter) 2010-04-08 08:13 edited on: 2010-04-08 08:14	quickly confirmed this by embarking with only training axes. very amusing. Odds are one of you clever dwarves can even isolate this one in a raw file if you like. ;)

(0010628) Telarin (reporter) 2010-07-19 06:40	Confirmed in 0.31.10 as well.

(0010635) smjjames (reporter) 2010-07-19 07:51	My woodcutter/carpenter used the wood training axe just fine. Not sure if it were a bit slower than with a metal axe, but, yea. As strange as this whole thing sounds, I think this could be kept as a feature since I don't know of a way to keep a particular type of axe as not being useable for woodcutting.

(0010654) Rhenaya (reporter) 2010-07-19 10:41	its because they use any [CLASS:AXE] weapon for woodcutting, even funnier its if you civ can use halberds... a solution would be to add [WOODCUTTING:BATTLE_AXE] into the raws just like the pick is [DIGGER:PICK] (i know its a longer id but you know what i mean)

(0010663) smjjames (reporter) 2010-07-19 12:40	How would it still distinguish from a training battle axe and a metal one?

(0013081) nshapter (reporter) 2010-09-30 08:41	IRL a Battle Axe would not be the tool of choice for wood cutting. Is a training axe definitely just an axe shaped Bokken or maybe a flint hatchet or what? It makes sense to have wood cutting tools that are not (strictly speaking) weapons. Dwarves need saws.

(0013082) Quietust (reporter) 2010-09-30 09:29 edited on: 2010-09-30 09:31	smjjames: "training axes" and "battle axes" are completely different weapons - one has the ID "ITEM_WEAPON_AXE_TRAINING" and has only BLUNT attacks, while the other has the ID "ITEM_WEAPON_AXE_BATTLE" and has an EDGE attack. All training weapons have the [TRAINING] token (which is what allows them to be made by carpenters instead of by weaponsmiths), which could probably be used to prevent them from being used by wood cutters.

(0013083) Malibu Stacey (reporter) 2010-09-30 09:37	That's epic. Nice bug to exploit for saving embark points. I doubt the material or quality of the axe used to cut trees down will make any difference to how quickly a Woodcutter fells a tree. Actually I'd be surprised if the skill of the dwarf makes any difference either. A proper fix would be to create a new axe type specifically for woodcutting purposes & leave battle axes as is, just removing their ability to be used for woodcutting.

(0015066) tatterdemalian (reporter) 2011-02-08 18:14	Hey, it could be like that other game where you punch trees... Seriously, though, there are enough specialized equipment types in the game, and each one seems to cause more bugs with each new release. Maybe if aspects of tools and weapons were consolidated or simplified somehow, it would be easier to introduce such variants.

(0021902) Kogut (reporter) 2012-03-30 05:37	Confirmed in 0.34.06 as well.

(0033004) Shimrod (reporter) 2015-08-28 09:23	Still present in 0.40.24.