0000926: Amphibian invader mounts drown their riders

(0002558)
Jiri Petru (reporter)
2010-04-10 06:26

This is one of those bugs I love Dwarf Fortress for :)

(0002565)
Marconius (reporter)
2010-04-10 06:58

That is simply hilarious...

I'm not sure it's a bug though. You could just say those giant toads aren't really well trained and Goblins aren't very good swimmers. It kinda makes sense to me.

(0002680)
oliver (reporter)
2010-04-10 17:43

A save showing the problem is at http://s3test.randomly.org/df/926/region6-aut-54_goblin-swimming-pool.zip [^]

Load and unpause. In a few seconds, the main drawbridge will open, your FPS will plummet as invader pathfinding goes nuts, and then all the goblins on toads by the northeast corner of the moat will jump in the moat and start drowning.

It seems like the toads are happy to path through water - that group seems to be doing the siege "hang around and be a nuisance" behavior, and just happen to be doing it near the moat - but they're not taking their riders into account at all.

(0003136)
DoctorZuber (reporter)
2010-04-12 15:26

verified. That's priceless, I love it.

(0003138)
Jimmy (reporter)
2010-04-12 15:51

Can we keep this?

(0003162)
RichardCorey (reporter)
2010-04-12 17:33

Also verified. Wells and Moats are a surefire defense against toad riders. Not so much the toads, though, I suspect.

The rest of the squad seems content to now stand around the well, too, despite a "clear" (heavily trapped) path into my fortress... should that be happening?

(0004598)
Proteus (reporter)
2010-04-22 08:18

Yep,
I had it in my last fortress.
The goblins spawned directly in front of my moat with the goblin commander riding a cave crocodile.
The crocodile immediately entered the inviting water and drowned its rider after a short while of swimming around in the moat.

(0004603)
PencilinHand (reporter)
2010-04-22 08:59

This is lulz. But, yeah, the pathfinding should consider both the mount and ride's ability to breath. Still hilarious though.

(0005057)
Proteus (reporter)
2010-04-25 16:35
edited on: 2010-04-25 16:38

I now have made more experience with the drowning cave crocodile rider bug.

A whole goblin invasion, around 30 goblins in 3 squads as well as 8 Trolls.
All goblins riding on cave crocodiles.

I expected to see all goblin riders drowning in my moat, but I was mistaken.
Only the cave crocodiles of the 3 squad leaders entered the moats and drowned their riders.
Dunno, it seems that either squad leaders in the goblin world are as poipular as dwarven mayors that make impossible demands, which is why they are given rigged crocodiles to kill them
or it is like often in real life economy, i.e. those at the top are the least intelligent, meaning that only the squad leaders are crazy enough to steer their crocodiles into the moat, whereas their soldiers are too intelligent to make the same mistake.

(0008416)
Orkel2 (reporter)
2010-06-14 09:59

Also verified, and it's annoying me alot. Every siege has the gobbos riding cave crocodiles and the sieges are broken every time thanks to them always jumping in the river. Please fix it soon.

(0013434)
Narmio (reporter)
2010-10-20 17:54

This busted a siege for me as the two goblin squad leaders both drowned in tiny ponds crossing the marsh to reach my fortress. Two full squads of goblins then hung out in the marshland until I was able to sacrifice some peasants to lure them inside. I didn't have the military power to go out and crush them because one squad was lashers, which can instagib dwarves through masterworked steel armour with their copper scourges. :psyduck:

(0017610)
Quietust (reporter)
2011-05-03 14:17

The giant toad loitering in the moat instead of charging into the fortress is likely 0003700.

(0021644)
Khym Chanur (reporter)
2012-03-21 19:33

Interestingly, this same bug applies the other way around: an amphibious trader riding a non-amphibious mount will path underwater to get to the trade depot, killing the mount: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=63417.msg1468025#msg1468025 [^]

(0021646)
Quietust (reporter)
2012-03-21 21:16

Khym Chanur: that's actually a different case. Merchants don't ride their pack animals - they drag them, so the pack animal pathing is completely irrelevant in that case.

(0021647)
Kogut (reporter)
2012-03-21 22:03

@Khym Chanur, Quietust - reported as 0005688

Issue History
Date Modified	Username	Field	Change
2010-04-10 06:00	oliver	New Issue
2010-04-10 06:26	Jiri Petru	Note Added: 0002558
2010-04-10 06:58	Marconius	Note Added: 0002565
2010-04-10 17:43	oliver	Note Added: 0002680
2010-04-12 13:24	Footkerchief	Summary	Invading goblins try the secret underwater passage and discover they're not amphibian the hard way => Amphibian invader mounts drown their riders
2010-04-12 13:24	Footkerchief	Description Updated	View Revisions
2010-04-12 15:26	DoctorZuber	Note Added: 0003136
2010-04-12 15:51	Jimmy	Note Added: 0003138
2010-04-12 17:33	RichardCorey	Note Added: 0003162
2010-04-14 09:48	Jinalealia	Issue Monitored: Jinalealia
2010-04-22 08:18	Proteus	Note Added: 0004598
2010-04-22 08:59	PencilinHand	Note Added: 0004603
2010-04-22 09:18	Footkerchief	Relationship added	has duplicate 0001425
2010-04-25 16:35	Proteus	Note Added: 0005057
2010-04-25 16:37	Proteus	Note Edited: 0005057	View Revisions
2010-04-25 16:38	Proteus	Note Edited: 0005057	View Revisions
2010-04-25 16:38	Proteus	Note Edited: 0005057	View Revisions
2010-06-14 09:59	Orkel2	Note Added: 0008416
2010-08-13 08:01	Footkerchief	Relationship added	parent of 0003015
2010-10-20 17:54	Narmio	Note Added: 0013434
2010-12-23 10:10	Footkerchief	Relationship replaced	related to 0003015
2011-05-03 14:17	Quietust	Note Added: 0017610
2012-03-21 19:33	Khym Chanur	Note Added: 0021644
2012-03-21 21:16	Quietust	Note Added: 0021646
2012-03-21 22:03	Kogut	Note Added: 0021647
2012-03-22 09:07	Footkerchief	Relationship added	related to 0005688
2012-08-18 03:30	Knight Otu	Relationship added	has duplicate 0006161

Notes
(0002558) Jiri Petru (reporter) 2010-04-10 06:26	This is one of those bugs I love Dwarf Fortress for :)

(0002565) Marconius (reporter) 2010-04-10 06:58	That is simply hilarious... I'm not sure it's a bug though. You could just say those giant toads aren't really well trained and Goblins aren't very good swimmers. It kinda makes sense to me.

(0002680) oliver (reporter) 2010-04-10 17:43	A save showing the problem is at http://s3test.randomly.org/df/926/region6-aut-54_goblin-swimming-pool.zip [^] Load and unpause. In a few seconds, the main drawbridge will open, your FPS will plummet as invader pathfinding goes nuts, and then all the goblins on toads by the northeast corner of the moat will jump in the moat and start drowning. It seems like the toads are happy to path through water - that group seems to be doing the siege "hang around and be a nuisance" behavior, and just happen to be doing it near the moat - but they're not taking their riders into account at all.

(0003136) DoctorZuber (reporter) 2010-04-12 15:26	verified. That's priceless, I love it.

(0003138) Jimmy (reporter) 2010-04-12 15:51	Can we keep this?

(0003162) RichardCorey (reporter) 2010-04-12 17:33	Also verified. Wells and Moats are a surefire defense against toad riders. Not so much the toads, though, I suspect. The rest of the squad seems content to now stand around the well, too, despite a "clear" (heavily trapped) path into my fortress... should that be happening?

(0004598) Proteus (reporter) 2010-04-22 08:18	Yep, I had it in my last fortress. The goblins spawned directly in front of my moat with the goblin commander riding a cave crocodile. The crocodile immediately entered the inviting water and drowned its rider after a short while of swimming around in the moat.

(0004603) PencilinHand (reporter) 2010-04-22 08:59	This is lulz. But, yeah, the pathfinding should consider both the mount and ride's ability to breath. Still hilarious though.

(0005057) Proteus (reporter) 2010-04-25 16:35 edited on: 2010-04-25 16:38	I now have made more experience with the drowning cave crocodile rider bug. A whole goblin invasion, around 30 goblins in 3 squads as well as 8 Trolls. All goblins riding on cave crocodiles. I expected to see all goblin riders drowning in my moat, but I was mistaken. Only the cave crocodiles of the 3 squad leaders entered the moats and drowned their riders. Dunno, it seems that either squad leaders in the goblin world are as poipular as dwarven mayors that make impossible demands, which is why they are given rigged crocodiles to kill them or it is like often in real life economy, i.e. those at the top are the least intelligent, meaning that only the squad leaders are crazy enough to steer their crocodiles into the moat, whereas their soldiers are too intelligent to make the same mistake.

(0008416) Orkel2 (reporter) 2010-06-14 09:59	Also verified, and it's annoying me alot. Every siege has the gobbos riding cave crocodiles and the sieges are broken every time thanks to them always jumping in the river. Please fix it soon.

(0013434) Narmio (reporter) 2010-10-20 17:54	This busted a siege for me as the two goblin squad leaders both drowned in tiny ponds crossing the marsh to reach my fortress. Two full squads of goblins then hung out in the marshland until I was able to sacrifice some peasants to lure them inside. I didn't have the military power to go out and crush them because one squad was lashers, which can instagib dwarves through masterworked steel armour with their copper scourges. :psyduck:

(0017610) Quietust (reporter) 2011-05-03 14:17	The giant toad loitering in the moat instead of charging into the fortress is likely 0003700.

(0021644) Khym Chanur (reporter) 2012-03-21 19:33	Interestingly, this same bug applies the other way around: an amphibious trader riding a non-amphibious mount will path underwater to get to the trade depot, killing the mount: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=63417.msg1468025#msg1468025 [^]

(0021646) Quietust (reporter) 2012-03-21 21:16	Khym Chanur: that's actually a different case. Merchants don't ride their pack animals - they drag them, so the pack animal pathing is completely irrelevant in that case.

(0021647) Kogut (reporter) 2012-03-21 22:03	@Khym Chanur, Quietust - reported as 0005688