0006586: Carpenter climbs multi-block trees to die

(0024947)
gavj (reporter)
2014-07-07 23:48

I've been testing a ton of maps (20-30 of them) with standard embark profile and multitrees and carpenters, and have not seen this happen.

Was there anything else abnormal going on? Did you choose any options at all other than default?

(0024948)
.indigo (reporter)
2014-07-07 23:50

I've had this happen 3 or 4 times in a row now. I'm using the embark profile of 2 proficient miners, 1 proficient carpenter, 1 proficient mason, 1 proficient mechanic, and 1 proficient planter. I'm going to start trying to isolate the cause by removing factors.

(0025021)
Footkerchief (manager)
2014-07-08 06:57

Please upload a save to http://dffd.wimbli.com/ [^] and post the link here.

(0025052)
QubeNub (reporter)
2014-07-08 09:09

I've got the same issue, 2 of the starter dwarves died, 1 stonecrafter and soon after the woodworker.

Uploaded my save here:

http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=8755 [^]

(0025099)
Erendir (reporter)
2014-07-08 11:26
edited on: 2014-07-08 11:46

I got the same issue and don't think it's related to the skills, probably it's about being idle: my idle dwarfs are climbing trees and then jumping from one to another (at least I guess that's what I saw), falling to the ground from time to time.

I'll upload a save (it's 35Mb unfortunally) with my woodworker sitting on a tree for no reason (he has no job, only designations so far: gather plants and cut one tree far away from this particular one)

UPDATE: save: http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=8761 [^]

(0025349)
ArmokGoB (reporter)
2014-07-09 10:31

Can confirm. Wood cutter got his leg pulped by falling wood after falling 2 z-levels from a tree.

(0025471)
nshapter (reporter)
2014-07-09 21:06

sorry for the dupe. I'm uploading before and after saves for analysis

before http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=8826 [^]

after http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=8827 [^]

(0025578)
Haikon (reporter)
2014-07-10 13:12

On my first immigration wave, I got a dwarf who climbed a tree and fell to their death before I could do anything with them. Other dwarves have fallen as well.

http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=8840 [^]

(Before this game, I had 5 out of 16 dwarves in the hospital from this. I restarted when my carpenter fell in the river and drowned.)

(0025680)
nshapter (reporter)
2014-07-10 21:26

My latest observation of this appears to be related to changing seasons/foliage

Immediately after summer arrived the several ravens fell to their deaths in my latest save.

Dwarf pathing into trees can be prevented by cutting map edge trees as well as trees adjacent to z level changes, structures etc. I'm not sure if jumping or climbing will result in creatures stranded on a higher z level, in a tree.

(0025716)
eliotcougar (reporter)
2014-07-11 01:59

I've noticed a strange thing that may be a "one off" calculation error in the source code:
If you designate a cut down trees area that spans multiple layers (i.e. forest on a slope) it designates sections of trunks that are one block above the surface, and not the actual bases of trees. That may force dwarfs to climb a tree first, if they can't reach the marked block from the ground.

(0025717)
rhorama (reporter)
2014-07-11 02:03

nshapter I've seen that before with birds as well. I think it may be that after the leaves change, the birds are no longer sitting on anything?

(0025730)
JoeJoe (reporter)
2014-07-11 04:37

I suspect it isn't directly related to trees, but to climbing/jumping in general. I've had several of my dwarves fall down trees, but now one of my miners fell down the canyon for no apparent reason, without any nearby trees.

(0025788)
ArmokGoB (reporter)
2014-07-11 10:25

My dwarves are just throwing themselves down holes to die for no reason whatsoever. I think they put the same weight on climbing as they do on regular walking, causing them to try to climb things that they shouldn't, but I'm not 100% sure. It led to me having to abandon my fort because half of my dwarves were mortally wounded from trying to path down my "staircase" which is basically ramps around a hole like you find in adventurer mode.

(0025817)
scriberman (reporter)
2014-07-11 12:04

@eliotcougar Related to the designation "one off" calculation error, I have been testing that very thing today:
http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=7071 [^]

(0026499)
Knight Otu (manager)
2014-07-15 10:48

Robsoie posted a save at 0007339.

(0026783)
Toady One (administrator)
2014-07-17 15:08

Idling dwarves with nowhere to hang out eventually convince themselves that they are stuck and need to climb. If you have lots of disconnected/burrowed meeting halls, they'll probably have trouble as well, since they don't always think about the right ones. I've worked on this now, and it should be quite a bit better for next time. I've also made them prioritize in a few ways to try to get them never to do the worst things (like climbing down into deep pits or up trees when they don't have to). Still, it's a difficult problem overall, so I'm going to leave this open until we get more confirmation that it is okay enough to close.

(0030386)
PatrikLundell (reporter)
2014-09-26 14:42

8353 redirect: Sorry, no, I didn't think to copy a save. I assume the current save (a long while later) is of no use?

(0030449)
PatrikLundell (reporter)
2014-09-29 11:34

My Hauler dwarf is stuck 5 levels up in a tree, presumably scared by a Kea. I've waited until all Keas have left the map, disabled and then enabled Hauling again, as well as created a burrow around the base of the tree, but to no avail, and she's getting hungry. After copying the save (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=9819 [^]) I've chopped the tree down, and she didn't even get a scratch.
The same configuration as for 0008353 applies.

(0035747)
Loci (manager)
2016-08-03 11:39
edited on: 2016-08-03 11:48

The fixes Toady mentioned above appear to have been included in v0.40.04.

PatrikLundell's save above claims to be from v0.40.13.

If anyone else has a save with dwarves climbing trees in a more recent version, please attach it below.

Note: I grouped multiple recent "dwarves stuck in trees" bugs under 0009252, so there are still cases of dwarves climbing trees.

Issue History
Date Modified	Username	Field	Change
2014-07-07 23:46	.indigo	New Issue
2014-07-07 23:48	gavj	Note Added: 0024947
2014-07-07 23:50	.indigo	Note Added: 0024948
2014-07-08 06:57	Footkerchief	Note Added: 0025021
2014-07-08 06:57	Footkerchief	Assigned To	=> Footkerchief
2014-07-08 06:57	Footkerchief	Status	new => needs feedback
2014-07-08 09:09	QubeNub	Note Added: 0025052
2014-07-08 11:26	Erendir	Note Added: 0025099
2014-07-08 11:46	Erendir	Note Edited: 0025099	View Revisions
2014-07-08 15:53	Footkerchief	Relationship added	has duplicate 0006726
2014-07-09 10:31	ArmokGoB	Note Added: 0025349
2014-07-09 15:15	Footkerchief	Relationship added	related to 0006883
2014-07-09 20:19	Footkerchief	Relationship replaced	has duplicate 0006883
2014-07-09 20:19	Footkerchief	Relationship added	has duplicate 0006909
2014-07-09 21:06	nshapter	Note Added: 0025471
2014-07-10 13:12	Haikon	Note Added: 0025578
2014-07-10 16:02	Footkerchief	Relationship added	has duplicate 0006675
2014-07-10 21:26	nshapter	Note Added: 0025680
2014-07-11 01:59	eliotcougar	Note Added: 0025716
2014-07-11 02:03	rhorama	Note Added: 0025717
2014-07-11 04:37	JoeJoe	Note Added: 0025730
2014-07-11 07:39	Footkerchief	Relationship added	related to 0007055
2014-07-11 10:25	ArmokGoB	Note Added: 0025788
2014-07-11 10:33	Footkerchief	Relationship added	related to 0007066
2014-07-11 10:41	Footkerchief	Relationship added	related to 0006898
2014-07-11 12:04	scriberman	Note Added: 0025817
2014-07-11 12:05	scriberman	Issue Monitored: scriberman
2014-07-11 20:32	Footkerchief	Relationship added	has duplicate 0006722
2014-07-11 20:32	Footkerchief	Issue Monitored: snateraar
2014-07-13 08:53	Footkerchief	Relationship added	related to 0007209
2014-07-13 10:01	Footkerchief	Relationship added	related to 0007217
2014-07-13 11:24	Kennel	Tag Attached: AI
2014-07-13 11:24	Kennel	Tag Attached: Climbing
2014-07-13 11:24	Kennel	Tag Attached: falling
2014-07-13 14:11	Footkerchief	Relationship added	has duplicate 0007229
2014-07-15 10:47	Knight Otu	Relationship added	has duplicate 0007339
2014-07-15 10:48	Knight Otu	Note Added: 0026499
2014-07-16 14:57	Footkerchief	Relationship added	related to 0007395
2014-07-17 15:08	Toady One	Note Added: 0026783
2014-07-17 16:36	Footkerchief	Relationship added	has duplicate 0007430
2014-07-17 16:49	Footkerchief	Relationship added	related to 0006625
2014-07-18 13:46	Footkerchief	Relationship added	related to 0007453
2014-07-22 12:56	Knossos	Note Added: 0027240
2014-07-22 12:57	Knossos	Note View State: 0027240: private
2014-07-22 12:58	Knossos	Note Edited: 0027240	View Revisions
2014-07-23 03:54	Knossos	Note Deleted: 0027240
2014-07-26 02:08	Haikon	Issue Monitored: Haikon
2014-08-09 12:25	Footkerchief	Relationship added	related to 0007170
2014-08-10 07:50	Footkerchief	Relationship added	has duplicate 0007390
2014-08-10 07:50	Footkerchief	Issue Monitored: robbintt
2014-08-11 13:39	Footkerchief	Relationship added	related to 0007959
2014-09-03 08:44	Footkerchief	Relationship added	related to 0008191
2014-09-26 08:37	Footkerchief	Relationship added	has duplicate 0008353
2014-09-26 14:42	PatrikLundell	Note Added: 0030386
2014-09-29 11:34	PatrikLundell	Note Added: 0030449
2016-07-12 23:41	Loci	Relationship added	related to 0009252
2016-08-03 11:39	Loci	Note Added: 0035747
2016-08-03 11:44	Loci	Relationship added	has duplicate 0009644
2016-08-03 11:48	Loci	Note Edited: 0035747	View Revisions
2018-03-22 11:08	Loci	Relationship added	has duplicate 0010656

Notes
(0024947) gavj (reporter) 2014-07-07 23:48	I've been testing a ton of maps (20-30 of them) with standard embark profile and multitrees and carpenters, and have not seen this happen. Was there anything else abnormal going on? Did you choose any options at all other than default?

(0024948) .indigo (reporter) 2014-07-07 23:50	I've had this happen 3 or 4 times in a row now. I'm using the embark profile of 2 proficient miners, 1 proficient carpenter, 1 proficient mason, 1 proficient mechanic, and 1 proficient planter. I'm going to start trying to isolate the cause by removing factors.

(0025021) Footkerchief (manager) 2014-07-08 06:57	Please upload a save to http://dffd.wimbli.com/ [^] and post the link here.

(0025052) QubeNub (reporter) 2014-07-08 09:09	I've got the same issue, 2 of the starter dwarves died, 1 stonecrafter and soon after the woodworker. Uploaded my save here: http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=8755 [^]

(0025099) Erendir (reporter) 2014-07-08 11:26 edited on: 2014-07-08 11:46	I got the same issue and don't think it's related to the skills, probably it's about being idle: my idle dwarfs are climbing trees and then jumping from one to another (at least I guess that's what I saw), falling to the ground from time to time. I'll upload a save (it's 35Mb unfortunally) with my woodworker sitting on a tree for no reason (he has no job, only designations so far: gather plants and cut one tree far away from this particular one) UPDATE: save: http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=8761 [^]

(0025349) ArmokGoB (reporter) 2014-07-09 10:31	Can confirm. Wood cutter got his leg pulped by falling wood after falling 2 z-levels from a tree.

(0025471) nshapter (reporter) 2014-07-09 21:06	sorry for the dupe. I'm uploading before and after saves for analysis before http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=8826 [^] after http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=8827 [^]

(0025578) Haikon (reporter) 2014-07-10 13:12	On my first immigration wave, I got a dwarf who climbed a tree and fell to their death before I could do anything with them. Other dwarves have fallen as well. http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=8840 [^] (Before this game, I had 5 out of 16 dwarves in the hospital from this. I restarted when my carpenter fell in the river and drowned.)

(0025680) nshapter (reporter) 2014-07-10 21:26	My latest observation of this appears to be related to changing seasons/foliage Immediately after summer arrived the several ravens fell to their deaths in my latest save. Dwarf pathing into trees can be prevented by cutting map edge trees as well as trees adjacent to z level changes, structures etc. I'm not sure if jumping or climbing will result in creatures stranded on a higher z level, in a tree.

(0025716) eliotcougar (reporter) 2014-07-11 01:59	I've noticed a strange thing that may be a "one off" calculation error in the source code: If you designate a cut down trees area that spans multiple layers (i.e. forest on a slope) it designates sections of trunks that are one block above the surface, and not the actual bases of trees. That may force dwarfs to climb a tree first, if they can't reach the marked block from the ground.

(0025717) rhorama (reporter) 2014-07-11 02:03	nshapter I've seen that before with birds as well. I think it may be that after the leaves change, the birds are no longer sitting on anything?

(0025730) JoeJoe (reporter) 2014-07-11 04:37	I suspect it isn't directly related to trees, but to climbing/jumping in general. I've had several of my dwarves fall down trees, but now one of my miners fell down the canyon for no apparent reason, without any nearby trees.

(0025788) ArmokGoB (reporter) 2014-07-11 10:25	My dwarves are just throwing themselves down holes to die for no reason whatsoever. I think they put the same weight on climbing as they do on regular walking, causing them to try to climb things that they shouldn't, but I'm not 100% sure. It led to me having to abandon my fort because half of my dwarves were mortally wounded from trying to path down my "staircase" which is basically ramps around a hole like you find in adventurer mode.

(0025817) scriberman (reporter) 2014-07-11 12:04	@eliotcougar Related to the designation "one off" calculation error, I have been testing that very thing today: http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=7071 [^]

(0026499) Knight Otu (manager) 2014-07-15 10:48	Robsoie posted a save at 0007339.

(0026783) Toady One (administrator) 2014-07-17 15:08	Idling dwarves with nowhere to hang out eventually convince themselves that they are stuck and need to climb. If you have lots of disconnected/burrowed meeting halls, they'll probably have trouble as well, since they don't always think about the right ones. I've worked on this now, and it should be quite a bit better for next time. I've also made them prioritize in a few ways to try to get them never to do the worst things (like climbing down into deep pits or up trees when they don't have to). Still, it's a difficult problem overall, so I'm going to leave this open until we get more confirmation that it is okay enough to close.

(0030386) PatrikLundell (reporter) 2014-09-26 14:42	8353 redirect: Sorry, no, I didn't think to copy a save. I assume the current save (a long while later) is of no use?

(0030449) PatrikLundell (reporter) 2014-09-29 11:34	My Hauler dwarf is stuck 5 levels up in a tree, presumably scared by a Kea. I've waited until all Keas have left the map, disabled and then enabled Hauling again, as well as created a burrow around the base of the tree, but to no avail, and she's getting hungry. After copying the save (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=9819 [^]) I've chopped the tree down, and she didn't even get a scratch. The same configuration as for 0008353 applies.

(0035747) Loci (manager) 2016-08-03 11:39 edited on: 2016-08-03 11:48	The fixes Toady mentioned above appear to have been included in v0.40.04. PatrikLundell's save above claims to be from v0.40.13. If anyone else has a save with dwarves climbing trees in a more recent version, please attach it below. Note: I grouped multiple recent "dwarves stuck in trees" bugs under 0009252, so there are still cases of dwarves climbing trees.