0010870: Goblin siege or pitting causes visitors to attack everything.

Notes
(0038727) PatrikLundell (reporter) 2018-08-21 00:36	A "master" is a relation is not to a demon overlord (at least not specifically), but signifies the "master" in a master/apprentice relationship. This report will, in itself, probably not result in anything unless you provide a save (typically uploaded to http://dffd.bay12games.com/submit.php [^]) where the issue can be demonstrated. A good save would be one where "Hell breaks lose if I pit prisoner X".

(0038728) Spleen (reporter) 2018-08-21 00:48	I will try to do this tomorrow. What constitutes a save, a zip of the entire dir (including the world?) or are there bits and pieces I can go with to keep it smaller? Also the dingo man definitely wasn't it. He's long gone and memorialized. Any conflict pretty much causes it. It took me a few years to calm things down and human traders just showed up on the edge of the map and instantly all visitors started axing everyone simultaneously again. Ugh.

(0038730) Loci (manager) 2018-08-21 08:09	Please compress all the contents of the appropriate "region#" directory in DwarfFortress/data/save/ and upload the file to DFFD ( http://dffd.bay12games.com/ [^] ).

(0038737) Spleen (reporter) 2018-08-22 16:07 edited on: 2018-08-22 16:08	Thanks guys. http://dffd.bay12games.com/file.php?id=13976 [^] It took me about 2 years to get everyone quarantined from eachother and kill off most of the visitors and get it stable enough to try this again. My normal pit zone is uhhh being guarded by a walled in forgotten beast so I made a pit zone over a well, it worked fine twice in a row. If you want to channel a hole first and make your own, feel free. On the main level (F3 if it doesnt load there) if you go to the very top theres a well up there with a single pit zone. Assign any goblin to it. You get a message saying inapproriate building, but they must still let him out and try to haul them there because all hell breaks loose immediately afterwards. On the left hand side is my tavern where most of the visitors are, you will see it immediately fills with blood! Ill check back if there's questions! Thanks

(0038739) Spleen (reporter) 2018-08-23 16:27	Addendum. Had my fortress nice and settled. I had two goblins in cages connected to a lever, pulled it to loose them, and all hell broke loose. They didn't even see anyone.

(0038787) Spleen (reporter) 2018-09-06 21:10	I'm confused how everyone else isn't experiencing this in every game. I will have to quit for a few versions because my third successful embark just erupted in visitor chaos once again. As soon as it starts it never quite stops. I would consider this a show stopper bug as I keep having to abandon forts and regen a new world. This is another very successful fort, I have a king, a pet undead GCS, adamantine, all the trimmings. I guess I'll wait a few versions before I play again. I paused and saved the instant it happened this time, if that's any kind of help. I don't want to spend an entire day of my life trying to quiet the fort down again to make another save that causes it, but if interested I can upload this save, which is maybe 1 second after it starts.

(0038788) FantasticDorf (reporter) 2018-09-07 03:42	The use of pits aren't as common as the used to be and much of the time players seem to forgoe dropping captured threats into a deep hole rather than just releasing them for squad training or letting them safely languish in a cage forever. (that is in my own educated guess & anecdotal experience) Spies have secret affiliations to their home-civ, so it may be a case that your world in its current state is really really over-inflated with spies looking for your artifacts from said productive fortress who will swap to join the incoming forces and result in a series of smaller loyalty cascades leading to chaos which is what this sounds like (i havent tried the save yet)

(0038789) FantasticDorf (reporter) 2018-09-07 03:50 edited on: 2018-09-07 03:51	@PatrikLundell, master (to apprentice) and master (overlord/ruler) are worded the same and while they have different interred meanings, a apprentice would be trackable in legends mode or summoning their unit ID to site by some means to inspect their relationships. It can also be the name for a bandit leader in rare instances where the world-generation simply assigns a randomly generated name title to them. Funnily enough now to mention it, attacking some bandits can cause morale issues in adventuremode in a similar way with confusing means of how the aggression was activated with these visitors. Goblins have a high bandit rating in entity.txt, so it wouldn't be suprising if some ex-brigands still had inherited ties to prompt violent backlash because visitors falsely believe it to be a personal attack on a site. (see attached noted below) 0010760 (related report to this one, loyalty cascade after fighting off siege) 0010636 (soldiers random ambushing, regressively following old bandit behavior?) 0004680 (Human citizenship status causes diplomatic problems from defacto human civ they re-intergrated into or had a false connection to)

(0038791) PatrikLundell (reporter) 2018-09-07 04:21	I'm taking a look at the save, and the symptoms are the same as with infiltrators, i.e. one hostile unit gets into open conflict, and all of a sudden the buddies who were part of the same questor group starts to scare citizens, fight, and flee in terror, while all the time displaying performing normal activities such as socializing, praying, etc. and not being displayed as hostile. Here, again, they're not displayed as hostile, but yet fight (in one case a fortress resident is praying while fighting a socializing bard). I never managed to figure out how to determine the bonds between questers, apart from manually noting that they arrived as a group. While you have a bunch of fortress units that use false identities, their real identities show no affiliation with goblins, though some have had human contacts (I'm assuming the captive goblins are from a goblin civ, rather than a human one). None of the visitors are members of goblin any civ (I've found some acting as spies in my fortress: they arrive as performance troupe members and report trap positions back when leaving). I suspect this problem has common technical roots with 0010600.

(0038792) Spleen (reporter) 2018-09-07 21:03	I only need use the pit to drop creatures I cant butcher/kill/use in some way. Giant Earthworm for example. I'm not pitting goblins really ever. But it does cause the bug the same way as goblins arriving or doing anything, really. It's just useful as a cause to re-create it.

(0038793) Spleen (reporter) 2018-09-07 21:17	Agree about the relation. The permanently being scared part is just as obnoxious as the instant simultaneous bloodshed. It goes on for a year or two until the people starve or get killed. I can't be certain they are always killing my dwarves, too. Trying to mitigate it I would set a tavern to Visitors Only and it would still erupt in bloodshed.

(0038797) PatrikLundell (reporter) 2018-09-12 01:25	I've now gotten what may be a similar case, but rather than all out slaughter, it seems to be a single covertly hostile perpetrator, which might make it easier to figure out what's going on. http://dffd.bay12games.com/file.php?id=14016. [^] The save was made shortly after I started getting job abortion due to scary visitor reports, but before trying to deal with it. The human scholar Au Pebulapip causes citizens to abort their tasks because they get scared. The scholar doesn't seem to act in a hostile fashion, nor is it displayed as hostile. I identified the perpetrator by sending a squad to a station in the trouble area, as squads are able to detect and kill undercover troublemakers. That was done after the save point though. The trouble started a while into a goblin invasion, quite possibly when the first ones were crushed by a drawbridge, as the citizens haven't engaged the invaders physically at this point. As far as I could see, there wasn't any other undercover hostiles in the fortress, and examining the perpetrator using exported Legends info didn't provide any obvious clue to me. The '' in the first name is an unreadable character mangled by the Phebus tile set.

(0038798) Spleen (reporter) 2018-09-12 12:47	I don't think this has much to do with single undercover humanoids. It seemed to be race link in my saves, as every human would start attacking things, etc. (Even each other I think? was so hard to tell) In one of my saves when you cause it to kick off you see that every tavern/inn/temple/well and some major hallways simultaneously become bloodbaths. When I don't kick it off on purpose (pit etc) it's caused like you said by traps. Invaders will show up and sometime it happens that same instant because they must see a nearby visitor or tame critter. If not then, it happens soon after when they hit weapon traps. The scary visitor thing is a near constant. I just grew to live with that and didnt even consider it part of the bug report. I have to continually kill visitors that cause cancellations and they seem to sprout up nonstop. It's some after effect of the initial freakout where they kill each other. It also makes it very hard to keep people happy. Thanks for taking a look.

(0038800) PatrikLundell (reporter) 2018-09-13 01:47	As far as I've seen with infiltrators, there aren't really different cases of undercover hostiles, just three different behaviors, i.e. some will act normally and scare citizens anyway, some will actively attack (while pretending to do something normal), and some will run around in panic. I haven't seen anything to indicate they're different cases as such, only different reactions to the situation (a bit like dorfs encountering normal wildlife: some will attack, some don't care, and some flee).

Issue History
Date Modified	Username	Field	Change
2018-08-20 19:13	Spleen	New Issue
2018-08-21 00:36	PatrikLundell	Note Added: 0038727
2018-08-21 00:48	Spleen	Note Added: 0038728
2018-08-21 08:09	Loci	Note Added: 0038730
2018-08-21 08:09	Loci	Assigned To	=> Loci
2018-08-21 08:09	Loci	Status	new => needs feedback
2018-08-22 16:07	Spleen	Note Added: 0038737
2018-08-22 16:07	Spleen	Status	needs feedback => assigned
2018-08-22 16:08	Spleen	Note Edited: 0038737	View Revisions
2018-08-23 16:27	Spleen	Note Added: 0038739
2018-08-26 12:04	Loci	Status	assigned => confirmed
2018-08-26 12:04	Loci	Relationship added	related to 0009650
2018-09-06 21:10	Spleen	Note Added: 0038787
2018-09-07 03:42	FantasticDorf	Note Added: 0038788
2018-09-07 03:50	FantasticDorf	Note Added: 0038789
2018-09-07 03:51	FantasticDorf	Note Edited: 0038789	View Revisions
2018-09-07 04:21	PatrikLundell	Note Added: 0038791
2018-09-07 21:03	Spleen	Note Added: 0038792
2018-09-07 21:17	Spleen	Note Added: 0038793
2018-09-12 01:25	PatrikLundell	Note Added: 0038797
2018-09-12 12:47	Spleen	Note Added: 0038798
2018-09-13 01:47	PatrikLundell	Note Added: 0038800
2019-08-03 11:29	Loci	Relationship added	related to 0011133