0001275: Dwarves refuse to butcher tame animals unless they're directly slaughtered

(0003983)
Footkerchief (manager)
2010-04-17 10:31

Do you have any burrows set up that could be preventing the job? If not, it might be helpful to upload a save where the corpses are lying around and not getting butchered. http://dffd.wimbli.com/ [^]

(0003984)
king doom (reporter)
2010-04-17 10:31
edited on: 2010-04-17 10:33

Oh, I forgot to mention, they only refuse to butcher animals that died of old age that were not locked up in a cage. I've had about a dozen wild crundles die of old age in cages after they ran into my traps, and those were automatically butchered with no problems. I don't have any burrows set up anywhere. The next time an animal dies of old age I'll upload the file, since the existing ones got marked for dumping and thrown into magma.

(0003985)
Footkerchief (manager)
2010-04-17 10:51

Hmm... this might be the lingering ghost of an old bug.

# 000833 □ [dwarf mode][jobs][burial] (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=7579.0 [^]) the bodies of tame animals that weren't pets can't be buried or butchered, including work dogs

(0004006)
king doom (reporter)
2010-04-17 16:55

Okay, it happened, I have two dead animals in my refuse pit that died of old age (bought both from the elves) and a large amount of dead animals in cages I caught myself. The dead caged ones should automatically get butchered, the ones in the refuse heap the dwarves wont touch.

hopefully I've managed to get the save uploaded correctly, The only change I made, aside from a few in the init file was to add a trade capacity to warthogs to stop elves bringing hundreds of thousnads of items each spring. As an aside, aren't the animal spawns supposed to be infinite now? they should never stop appearing from the map edges? I think I saw that somewhere. If I wasn't imagining things, then there's another issue, since for the last two or three in game years nothing has spawned underground but a few pond grabbers, and aboveground only has a few dears a year. At the start of the game there were waves of 10 or so crundles every fifteen minutes. Anyways, save file is here:

http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=2139 [^]

(0004009)
smjjames (reporter)
2010-04-17 17:04

@Footkerchief: Yea its an old bug resurfacing. I've had stray animals die of old age and they aren't butchered in 40D

(0004028)
derigo (reporter)
2010-04-18 02:25

wasn't there a 'animals bought from elves can't be butchered' bug? yes here it is.

http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=482 [^]

(0004032)
GRead (reporter)
2010-04-18 02:56

This seems to happen with any tame animal that dies. I had a lucky werewolf off one of my grizzlies, and the dwarfs refused to butcher him.

(0004040)
Jimmy (reporter)
2010-04-18 05:25

Tame animals won't be butchered if they die of causes other than assigning them to butchery. This behavior's been around for many versions. Try chaining tame animals at the entrance of your fort and letting them get killed by goblins. The corpses are not butcherable.
Wild animals on the other hand are valid butchery targets due to any death. This is why hunting works.
This used to be controlled by the now removed [BUTCHERABLE_NONSTANDARD] tag.

(0008802)
hyndis (reporter)
2010-06-20 14:12

Seeing this as well. Tame animals can only be butchered if they are ordered to be butchered. If they die of old age, combat, or an unfortunate accident they can never be butchered. Saw the same behavior in 40D as in 31.XX.

(0008961)
Huggz (reporter)
2010-06-22 09:34

Makes it hard to have an automated meat industry...

(0008966)
hyndis (reporter)
2010-06-22 12:23

You might be able to rig in a custom reaction to do butcher the corpse regardless, but yeah, automated meat industries won't work because of this, and its not a new change with 31.XX.

If anyone does have that custom reaction to do it, I'd be interested in seeing their reaction. Just give it the [AUTOMATIC] token, have it trigger on a corpse, and you're good to go.

(0011759)
king doom (reporter)
2010-08-13 05:03

As a little extra, with this bug, once something dies of old age and the dwarves refuse to slaughter it, it rots to become a skeleton, and then remains a skeleton for the rest of time, taking up a square in your refuse pile forever.

(0011764)
kwieland (reporter)
2010-08-13 11:36

@kingdoom Use the atomizer [http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/DF2010:Dwarven_atom_smasher [^] as explained here]

(0020189)
Syndic (reporter)
2012-02-19 17:24

bug seems to be still around as of v0.34.02. A wild animal killed an alpaca that I had on my pasture outside, and its corpse just rots around merrily on my refuse pile.

(0021146)
Gaboris (reporter)
2012-03-05 16:03

It sure is around. I looked up some reports on this, but I'm still not sure if this is a bug or just an uncleared function.

In my case I had several tamed animal that starved to death(this is my second fortress sooo...) and they got taken to the refuse pile right next to the butcher(as advised on the wiki) and the very second I gave the order to butcher them, but it brought up the "no unrotten remains" complaint the very second and this also applied to the leftover skeletons.

Problem is that this seems to somehow also apply to vermin that were killed by my pets. Maybe they are not full bodies anymore and that's the prob?

So the real question is if this is a real bug(then it needs a fix REAL badly) or just a function(then it only needs to be made clear so players can know).

(0021149)
ClayMuffin (reporter)
2012-03-05 16:37

Same here, experiencing the same problems.

(0021880)
shinziril (reporter)
2012-03-29 18:45

I've got a turkey corpse that died in a cage, causing the standard "needs unrotten corpse" spam. You'd think if they're not going to butcher it it'd at least not trigger the autobutcher function.

(0030144)
Dame de la Licorne (reporter)
2014-09-12 15:07

Still in .40.11. I have a "Stray Nanny Goat corpse" (the goat starved to death because it got stuck on a wall, probably as a result of 0003371, since there's no possible way it could have ended up there any other way) that my dwarves refuse to butcher, even when it's in a refuse stockpile set to give only to the butcher's shop. Stockpile, workshop and butcher are all in the same burrow.

(0030234)
tacomagic (reporter)
2014-09-17 12:44

Still present in 40.12.

Seems to affect all creatures that die of natural causes (old age and starvation) and some (but not all) skeletal remains.

(0030384)
Dame de la Licorne (reporter)
2014-09-26 11:02

Still present in 40.13.

(0033567)
Hedede (reporter)
2015-12-07 03:37

Still happens in 42.02.

(0034077)
tonren (reporter)
2015-12-20 14:40

Still present in 42.03

(0036106)
OluapPlayer (reporter)
2016-12-24 05:07

Still present in 43.05.

(0036231)
FantasticDorf (reporter)
2017-01-28 00:46
edited on: 2017-01-28 00:49

This behavior is caused by dead_dwarf=true which assigns the body & the objects (products if exploitatively butchered as extension of body) to be interred into a burial receptacle or remembered via a inscribed slab when it naturally dies/dies in combat, slaughtering doesn't activate dead_dwarf and allows meat industries to work

The corpses will be sorted into the graveyard (now named the corpses stockpile, not refuse/corpses) along with the intentional entity civil members to stop racial self-cannibalism & prepare the bodies (and unintentional sentients via 0009171 post 42.01) the graveyard does not outsource anything because it would interfere with retrieving body parts for burial, as soon as its queued up for the stockpile (products too) it is unusable.

(Information gathered from research conducted on this DF forum thread - http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=161408.msg7341491#msg7341491 [^] )

It's not really a bug, more a unsavory bug-fix to 0000790 that has been misinterpreted. But due to public demand, making a suggestion thread on the forums may help convince toady to offer more control over what happens.

(0038742)
HairyDude (reporter)
2018-08-25 20:30

This looks like the underlying cause of 0001180, and 0004459 looks similar.

(0038991)
king doom (reporter)
2018-12-03 08:08

Just confirming this is still present in 44.12

(0040694)
FantasticDorf (reporter)
2020-08-18 09:16

Still present in 47.04 , its normally trivial but will probably no doubt trip up new or inexperienced players leading up to the steam release. Does not work with passive tile based butchering or direct stockpile links to the butchers shop from a refuse or corpse pile with queued jobs.

(0040695)
FantasticDorf (reporter)
2020-08-18 09:19

Other things to note is that its particularly a problem since evil biomes have been standardized into predictable spheres, death spheres are both devoid of grazing pasture and passively reanimate, making tame stray animal casualties like starved wagon-animals difficult to dispose of; short of atom-smashing.

Issue History
Date Modified	Username	Field	Change
2010-04-17 10:24	king doom	New Issue
2010-04-17 10:30	Footkerchief	Relationship added	child of 0000874
2010-04-17 10:31	Footkerchief	Note Added: 0003983
2010-04-17 10:31	king doom	Note Added: 0003984
2010-04-17 10:33	king doom	Note Edited: 0003984	View Revisions
2010-04-17 10:51	Footkerchief	Note Added: 0003985
2010-04-17 16:55	king doom	Note Added: 0004006
2010-04-17 17:04	smjjames	Note Added: 0004009
2010-04-18 02:25	derigo	Note Added: 0004028
2010-04-18 02:56	GRead	Note Added: 0004032
2010-04-18 05:25	Jimmy	Note Added: 0004040
2010-06-14 02:39	MrOblong	Issue Monitored: MrOblong
2010-06-20 14:04	Threlicus	Issue Monitored: Threlicus
2010-06-20 14:12	hyndis	Note Added: 0008802
2010-06-22 09:20	Footkerchief	Summary	Dwarves refuse to butcher animals that died of natural causes. => Dwarves refuse to butcher tame animals unless they're directly slaughtered
2010-06-22 09:20	Footkerchief	Relationship added	has duplicate 0002425
2010-06-22 09:34	Huggz	Note Added: 0008961
2010-06-22 12:23	hyndis	Note Added: 0008966
2010-08-13 05:03	king doom	Note Added: 0011759
2010-08-13 11:36	kwieland	Note Added: 0011764
2010-09-20 05:09	Another	Issue Monitored: Another
2010-09-20 05:10	Another	Tag Attached: butcher
2010-09-20 05:10	Another	Tag Attached: tame
2010-10-05 02:04	Vair	Issue Monitored: Vair
2010-10-05 13:24	Shurikane	Issue Monitored: Shurikane
2010-11-21 01:48	Alien	Issue Monitored: Alien
2011-02-25 08:48	Footkerchief	Relationship replaced	related to 0000874
2011-03-02 11:37	Footkerchief	Relationship added	related to 0004110
2011-07-28 10:09	Footkerchief	Relationship added	related to 0000790
2011-07-28 10:09	Footkerchief	Relationship deleted	related to 0004110
2012-02-19 17:24	Syndic	Note Added: 0020189
2012-03-05 16:03	Gaboris	Note Added: 0021146
2012-03-05 16:04	Gaboris	Issue Monitored: Gaboris
2012-03-05 16:37	ClayMuffin	Note Added: 0021149
2012-03-05 19:53	zombiejustice	Issue Monitored: zombiejustice
2012-03-27 04:07	Steb	Issue Monitored: Steb
2012-03-27 06:05	Dame de la Licorne	Issue Monitored: Dame de la Licorne
2012-03-29 18:45	shinziril	Note Added: 0021880
2014-09-12 15:07	Dame de la Licorne	Note Added: 0030144
2014-09-12 16:58	Footkerchief	Assigned To	=> Footkerchief
2014-09-12 16:58	Footkerchief	Status	new => confirmed
2014-09-17 12:44	tacomagic	Note Added: 0030234
2014-09-26 11:02	Dame de la Licorne	Note Added: 0030384
2015-12-07 03:37	Hedede	Note Added: 0033567
2015-12-07 03:39	Hedede	Issue Monitored: Hedede
2015-12-20 14:40	tonren	Note Added: 0034077
2015-12-21 12:07	Kirig Stonebeard I	Issue Monitored: Kirig Stonebeard I
2015-12-21 13:43	braiam	Issue Monitored: braiam
2016-12-24 05:07	OluapPlayer	Note Added: 0036106
2017-01-28 00:46	FantasticDorf	Note Added: 0036231
2017-01-28 00:49	FantasticDorf	Note Edited: 0036231	View Revisions
2017-03-22 12:48	Button	Issue Monitored: Button
2017-06-08 19:16	Huntthetroll	Issue Monitored: Huntthetroll
2018-08-25 18:35	HairyDude	Issue Monitored: HairyDude
2018-08-25 20:30	HairyDude	Note Added: 0038742
2018-12-03 08:08	king doom	Note Added: 0038991
2020-08-18 09:16	FantasticDorf	Note Added: 0040694
2020-08-18 09:19	FantasticDorf	Note Added: 0040695
2022-10-02 15:48	Ziusudra	Issue Monitored: Ziusudra

Notes
(0003983) Footkerchief (manager) 2010-04-17 10:31	Do you have any burrows set up that could be preventing the job? If not, it might be helpful to upload a save where the corpses are lying around and not getting butchered. http://dffd.wimbli.com/ [^]

(0003984) king doom (reporter) 2010-04-17 10:31 edited on: 2010-04-17 10:33	Oh, I forgot to mention, they only refuse to butcher animals that died of old age that were not locked up in a cage. I've had about a dozen wild crundles die of old age in cages after they ran into my traps, and those were automatically butchered with no problems. I don't have any burrows set up anywhere. The next time an animal dies of old age I'll upload the file, since the existing ones got marked for dumping and thrown into magma.

(0003985) Footkerchief (manager) 2010-04-17 10:51	Hmm... this might be the lingering ghost of an old bug. # 000833 □ [dwarf mode][jobs][burial] (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=7579.0 [^]) the bodies of tame animals that weren't pets can't be buried or butchered, including work dogs

(0004006) king doom (reporter) 2010-04-17 16:55	Okay, it happened, I have two dead animals in my refuse pit that died of old age (bought both from the elves) and a large amount of dead animals in cages I caught myself. The dead caged ones should automatically get butchered, the ones in the refuse heap the dwarves wont touch. hopefully I've managed to get the save uploaded correctly, The only change I made, aside from a few in the init file was to add a trade capacity to warthogs to stop elves bringing hundreds of thousnads of items each spring. As an aside, aren't the animal spawns supposed to be infinite now? they should never stop appearing from the map edges? I think I saw that somewhere. If I wasn't imagining things, then there's another issue, since for the last two or three in game years nothing has spawned underground but a few pond grabbers, and aboveground only has a few dears a year. At the start of the game there were waves of 10 or so crundles every fifteen minutes. Anyways, save file is here: http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=2139 [^]

(0004009) smjjames (reporter) 2010-04-17 17:04	@Footkerchief: Yea its an old bug resurfacing. I've had stray animals die of old age and they aren't butchered in 40D

(0004028) derigo (reporter) 2010-04-18 02:25	wasn't there a 'animals bought from elves can't be butchered' bug? yes here it is. http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=482 [^]

(0004032) GRead (reporter) 2010-04-18 02:56	This seems to happen with any tame animal that dies. I had a lucky werewolf off one of my grizzlies, and the dwarfs refused to butcher him.

(0004040) Jimmy (reporter) 2010-04-18 05:25	Tame animals won't be butchered if they die of causes other than assigning them to butchery. This behavior's been around for many versions. Try chaining tame animals at the entrance of your fort and letting them get killed by goblins. The corpses are not butcherable. Wild animals on the other hand are valid butchery targets due to any death. This is why hunting works. This used to be controlled by the now removed [BUTCHERABLE_NONSTANDARD] tag.

(0008802) hyndis (reporter) 2010-06-20 14:12	Seeing this as well. Tame animals can only be butchered if they are ordered to be butchered. If they die of old age, combat, or an unfortunate accident they can never be butchered. Saw the same behavior in 40D as in 31.XX.

(0008961) Huggz (reporter) 2010-06-22 09:34	Makes it hard to have an automated meat industry...

(0008966) hyndis (reporter) 2010-06-22 12:23	You might be able to rig in a custom reaction to do butcher the corpse regardless, but yeah, automated meat industries won't work because of this, and its not a new change with 31.XX. If anyone does have that custom reaction to do it, I'd be interested in seeing their reaction. Just give it the [AUTOMATIC] token, have it trigger on a corpse, and you're good to go.

(0011759) king doom (reporter) 2010-08-13 05:03	As a little extra, with this bug, once something dies of old age and the dwarves refuse to slaughter it, it rots to become a skeleton, and then remains a skeleton for the rest of time, taking up a square in your refuse pile forever.

(0011764) kwieland (reporter) 2010-08-13 11:36	@kingdoom Use the atomizer [http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/DF2010:Dwarven_atom_smasher [^] as explained here]

(0020189) Syndic (reporter) 2012-02-19 17:24	bug seems to be still around as of v0.34.02. A wild animal killed an alpaca that I had on my pasture outside, and its corpse just rots around merrily on my refuse pile.

(0021146) Gaboris (reporter) 2012-03-05 16:03	It sure is around. I looked up some reports on this, but I'm still not sure if this is a bug or just an uncleared function. In my case I had several tamed animal that starved to death(this is my second fortress sooo...) and they got taken to the refuse pile right next to the butcher(as advised on the wiki) and the very second I gave the order to butcher them, but it brought up the "no unrotten remains" complaint the very second and this also applied to the leftover skeletons. Problem is that this seems to somehow also apply to vermin that were killed by my pets. Maybe they are not full bodies anymore and that's the prob? So the real question is if this is a real bug(then it needs a fix REAL badly) or just a function(then it only needs to be made clear so players can know).

(0021149) ClayMuffin (reporter) 2012-03-05 16:37	Same here, experiencing the same problems.

(0021880) shinziril (reporter) 2012-03-29 18:45	I've got a turkey corpse that died in a cage, causing the standard "needs unrotten corpse" spam. You'd think if they're not going to butcher it it'd at least not trigger the autobutcher function.

(0030144) Dame de la Licorne (reporter) 2014-09-12 15:07	Still in .40.11. I have a "Stray Nanny Goat corpse" (the goat starved to death because it got stuck on a wall, probably as a result of 0003371, since there's no possible way it could have ended up there any other way) that my dwarves refuse to butcher, even when it's in a refuse stockpile set to give only to the butcher's shop. Stockpile, workshop and butcher are all in the same burrow.

(0030234) tacomagic (reporter) 2014-09-17 12:44	Still present in 40.12. Seems to affect all creatures that die of natural causes (old age and starvation) and some (but not all) skeletal remains.

(0030384) Dame de la Licorne (reporter) 2014-09-26 11:02	Still present in 40.13.

(0033567) Hedede (reporter) 2015-12-07 03:37	Still happens in 42.02.

(0034077) tonren (reporter) 2015-12-20 14:40	Still present in 42.03

(0036106) OluapPlayer (reporter) 2016-12-24 05:07	Still present in 43.05.

(0036231) FantasticDorf (reporter) 2017-01-28 00:46 edited on: 2017-01-28 00:49	This behavior is caused by dead_dwarf=true which assigns the body & the objects (products if exploitatively butchered as extension of body) to be interred into a burial receptacle or remembered via a inscribed slab when it naturally dies/dies in combat, slaughtering doesn't activate dead_dwarf and allows meat industries to work The corpses will be sorted into the graveyard (now named the corpses stockpile, not refuse/corpses) along with the intentional entity civil members to stop racial self-cannibalism & prepare the bodies (and unintentional sentients via 0009171 post 42.01) the graveyard does not outsource anything because it would interfere with retrieving body parts for burial, as soon as its queued up for the stockpile (products too) it is unusable. (Information gathered from research conducted on this DF forum thread - http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=161408.msg7341491#msg7341491 [^] ) It's not really a bug, more a unsavory bug-fix to 0000790 that has been misinterpreted. But due to public demand, making a suggestion thread on the forums may help convince toady to offer more control over what happens.

(0038742) HairyDude (reporter) 2018-08-25 20:30	This looks like the underlying cause of 0001180, and 0004459 looks similar.

(0038991) king doom (reporter) 2018-12-03 08:08	Just confirming this is still present in 44.12

(0040694) FantasticDorf (reporter) 2020-08-18 09:16	Still present in 47.04 , its normally trivial but will probably no doubt trip up new or inexperienced players leading up to the steam release. Does not work with passive tile based butchering or direct stockpile links to the butchers shop from a refuse or corpse pile with queued jobs.

(0040695) FantasticDorf (reporter) 2020-08-18 09:19	Other things to note is that its particularly a problem since evil biomes have been standardized into predictable spheres, death spheres are both devoid of grazing pasture and passively reanimate, making tame stray animal casualties like starved wagon-animals difficult to dispose of; short of atom-smashing.