0000874: Dwarves refuse to butcher some corpses (buzzards in particular)

(0002332)
Footkerchief (manager)
2010-04-09 09:22

Just to corroborate, I've had this exact same problem with buzzards, right down to the corpses not rotting.

(0004093)
Arnos (reporter)
2010-04-18 12:46

I have some buzzards. But it seems that my dwarfs butchered the normal ones just fine but left the "buzzard mutilated corpse" ones alone, I'm not sure if they rot yet...

(0006060)
clamity (reporter)
2010-05-03 18:40

It seems to be 50/50 for me if my dorfs will butcher anything...the first wave of buzzards my current fort butchered fine, but any subsequent buzzards my dorfs refuse to acknowledge.

(0008168)
ChickenLips (reporter)
2010-06-11 18:38
edited on: 2010-06-11 18:40

I can confirm this in .06. Two of the buzzards from the first spawning on the map are unbutcherable as described.

EDIT: Unlike the original reporter, though, I did get skin from butchering the ones that were butcherable. No bones aside from the skull, though.

(0008333)
oliver (reporter)
2010-06-13 15:43

Another datapoint: I suffered this bug and had a number of buzzard corpses (both intact and mutilated) hauled to a refuse stockpile with default settings; they then sat there, unbutcherable and unrotting.

Some time later I created a new refuse stockpile just for unbutcherable stuff - set to take only elves/dwarves/humans/kobolds/reptilemen/buzzards corpses and body parts. I turned off the corresponding settings on my existing refuse pile. I did not set "take from stockpile" at all since that's known to be buggy, I just relied on normal hauling.

All the other unbutcherable corpses have been moved, but the buzzard corpses remain, none of my haulers even tries to move them. So apparently something internally doesn't consider them to actually BE buzzard corpses despite the name, which could explain the unbutcherable/unrottable behaviour.

(0008334)
ChickenLips (reporter)
2010-06-13 16:01

They do seem to have eventually rotted away in my game (I'm about 14 months into it since the Buzzard Incident) -- they had been Dumped into a Garbage zone outside, where I presumed they would lay permanently. Checking it, they're gone, and they don't show up on the Stocks screen.

(0008805)
Footkerchief (manager)
2010-06-20 14:26
edited on: 2010-07-13 08:26

It would be helpful to upload saves with corpses of buzzards (or other animals) that can't be butchered and don't rot. http://dffd.wimbli.com/ [^]

(0010784)
Hertzyscowicz (reporter)
2010-07-21 09:00

Does this involve job cancellation spam with auto-butcher turned on? If yes, I might well have this.

(0011480)
greycat (reporter)
2010-08-04 06:48

http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=2896 [^]

There's a fresh buzzard corpse in the junk zone (by the underground farm -- F2 then up one level). I dumped it out of the butcher shop, where the hunter dragged it after shooting it, because nobody was willing to butcher it. It does not generate an auto-butcher job. Queueing up a butcher job manually just gives a job cancellation, "Needs butcherable unrotten nearby item."

This despite the [MUNDANE] tag in the raw file.

(0011815)
KahunaGod (reporter)
2010-08-15 14:21

I have this problem with most anything, especially ettins, giants, etc......

(0011817)
Footkerchief (manager)
2010-08-15 16:34

I have this problem with most anything, especially ettins, giants, etc......

That's not a bug. Ettins and giants are sentient creatures, so your dwarves won't butcher them for ethical reasons (just like kobolds etc.).

(0013291)
d64 (reporter)
2010-10-10 02:13

Still happening with 31.16, when a bunch of enemies are killed, only a small minority of the corpses are "butcherable". Can't figure out any reason for this: they all seem similar, and they are in a refuse stockpile right next to the butcher's workshop.

(0013297)
Quietust (reporter)
2010-10-10 09:16

Buzzards are quite amazingly tiny - when slaughtering them tame, it's quite common to get nothing but a skull. It's possible that if they're that small, your butchers don't think it's worth their time.

(0015497)
Infiltrator (reporter)
2011-02-25 06:32

Here, I've told the butcher to butcher animals after he's done slaughtering.

There are three buzzard corpses in the refuse stockpile, and one outside, as well as a water buffalo calf. The four buzzards died from my military because they were harassing me and the water buffalo starved to death because of the NW pasture bug (more are on their way).

After unpausing, you'll see that he cancels butchering because of not being able to find a butcherable corpse.

http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=3847 [^]

(0015503)
ellindsey (reporter)
2011-02-25 08:47

Buzzards are usually too small to yield any meat, fat, or bone when butchered, so your butcher will not bother even trying to butcher them.

Your own tame animals won't be butchered if they died from any cause other than being deliberately slaughtered at a butcher's shop, so your tame water buffalo corpse won't be butchered.

(0016322)
afftor (reporter)
2011-03-17 05:46

I think the reason is really a blood spatters on the corpses. I shot down a few buzzards, some got butchered, some didn't. Those who didn't all have blood spatters on them.

(0016798)
RossM (reporter)
2011-03-30 09:34

Seeing this in 0.31.23 with rabbits. Includes both rabbits with and without blood splatter. Very annoying, as my hunter wasted all his starting bolts and cluttered my refuse pile with rabbit corpses.

(0017150)
Immacolata (reporter)
2011-04-06 23:53

I have a problem with ducks in my current 31.25 fort. My hunter shot up 4, they got dragged to the Refuse stockpile next to my Butcher's shop right away. when I try to queue a Butcher Dead animal job, I recive the Need nearby unrotten butcherable item error message.

I am pretty sure the ducks were wild, they are not rotten, forbidden or anything.
[IMG]http://i56.tinypic.com/2e5jc60.png[/IMG] [^]

Are they too small for butchering?

(0017152)
slink (reporter)
2011-04-07 04:03

I ordered several tame ducks slaughtered, and got the same result, but I did get some duck skulls. Did you check to see if you got the skulls?

(0017153)
Immacolata (reporter)
2011-04-07 05:07

Slink, I did not even get that. If you click the link you see my abattoir setup. The dead ducks are in the stockpile as corpses, untouched. The butcher won't even pick them up, and they were never dumped in the butcher workshop by the hunter that shot them, but hauled to the refuse stockpile (which I enabled to take ducks).

Now, why is a dead duck stocked in a refuse pile and not a corpse stockpile is beyond me to fathom. Terminology for dead stuff in the game is a bit murky at best :) Is it remains, refuse, corpse? What is it?

(0017207)
king doom (reporter)
2011-04-08 12:20

I just had this happen in my fort - a buzzard flight attacked and was killed, half the bodies went to the butchers shop, mutilated buzzard corpses and buzzard corpses alike, and the four corpses remaining, two mutilated, two not, both have blodd splatters on them. This is in version 31.25

(0017215)
ellindsey (reporter)
2011-04-08 18:09

Ducks are always too small to give anything but a skull when butchered. Buzzards are sometimes too small, sometimes not.

Tame animals will always be slaughtered, even if they're too small to give anything but a skull. Wild animal corpses on the other hand will not be touched if they're too small to give anything but a skull.

So yes, tame ducks you order to be butchered will give duck skulls, but wild duck corpses will be untouched.

(0017463)
greycat (reporter)
2011-04-22 06:25

Also seeing this with rabbits in 0.31.25. My hunter shot a few, and dutifully took their corpses to the butcher's shop. The butcher won't butcher them, and attempting to force the job in the shop gives "Needs butcherable unrotten nearby item." They were wild, not tame.

(0018189)
ZzarkLinux (reporter)
2011-07-09 19:05

I got the butcher rabbit bug too in 0.31.25 legacy.

The butcher slays the rabbit fine, but then error "needs unrotten butcherable item" when trying to butcher it.

I have a possessed dwarf who is mumbling about bones... but the rabbits do nothing.

Uploaded the save at:
http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=4649 [^]

Hotkey F2 to look at the barnyard, select any tame rabbits to butcher.
Hotkey F5 to look at the butcher shop, and the dwarf will slaughter the rabbit but not butcher it, butcher job cancels with alert.

(0018297)
Ghoulz (reporter)
2011-07-23 02:17

If this really is an issue of the butcher not wanting to waste time on a corpse that yields no meat, then it would be nice if the hunters would be just as picky. It stinks wasting all your starting bolts on corpses that you can't butcher.

(0036798)
FantasticDorf (reporter)
2017-10-18 05:07
edited on: 2017-10-18 05:15

Its a different reaction, but "creepy crawler" vermin from the caverns are size [1000] (twice that of a rabbit [500] and a tenth of a adult crundle [10000]) and can be butchered for BP meat via the "extract from dead animal" (which is false; creepy crawler is not dead and in a trapping cage) job show this is a issue with "butcher a animal" size definitions since that separate job has no difficulty.

Crawlers have no bones and some generic BP of a heart, brain & muscles, comparably to other vermin & non vermin creatures who do have skeletons and bones in relative size inside them with no specific tags.

- Please test whether non-vermin invertebrates with no exoskeletons and only muscular & meat BP can be butchered at small sizes.

Could someone please put this up for possible revision as the creepy crawlers reaction seems inaccurate & the butchery process inconsistent, and i have left a suggestion regarding further discussion on the topic on the forums. ( http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=167867.0 [^] )

Issue History
Date Modified	Username	Field	Change
2010-04-09 05:50	Morlark	New Issue
2010-04-09 09:22	Footkerchief	Note Added: 0002332
2010-04-15 09:05	Footkerchief	Relationship added	parent of 0001180
2010-04-17 10:30	Footkerchief	Relationship added	parent of 0001275
2010-04-18 12:46	Arnos	Note Added: 0004093
2010-05-03 18:40	clamity	Note Added: 0006060
2010-05-03 18:43	clamity	Issue Monitored: clamity
2010-06-11 18:38	ChickenLips	Note Added: 0008168
2010-06-11 18:40	ChickenLips	Note Edited: 0008168	View Revisions
2010-06-13 15:43	oliver	Note Added: 0008333
2010-06-13 16:01	ChickenLips	Note Added: 0008334
2010-06-14 02:10	oliver	Issue Monitored: oliver
2010-06-14 02:39	MrOblong	Issue Monitored: MrOblong
2010-06-14 02:46	Cel	Issue Monitored: Cel
2010-06-14 10:09	Conti	Issue Monitored: Conti
2010-06-20 14:26	Footkerchief	Note Added: 0008805
2010-07-13 07:09	Footkerchief	Relationship added	has duplicate 0002672
2010-07-13 07:09	Footkerchief	Issue Monitored: Dwarfu
2010-07-13 08:26	Footkerchief	Note Edited: 0008805	View Revisions
2010-07-15 08:06	Footkerchief	Relationship added	related to 0002705
2010-07-20 15:26	Footkerchief	Relationship replaced	related to 0001180
2010-07-21 09:00	Hertzyscowicz	Note Added: 0010784
2010-08-04 06:48	greycat	Note Added: 0011480
2010-08-15 14:21	KahunaGod	Note Added: 0011815
2010-08-15 16:34	Footkerchief	Note Added: 0011817
2010-10-10 02:13	d64	Note Added: 0013291
2010-10-10 09:16	Quietust	Note Added: 0013297
2010-11-16 13:27	Footkerchief	Summary	Dwarves refuse to butcher some corpses => Dwarves refuse to butcher some corpses (buzzards in paticular)
2010-11-16 13:27	Footkerchief	Summary	Dwarves refuse to butcher some corpses (buzzards in paticular) => Dwarves refuse to butcher some corpses (buzzards in particular)
2010-11-16 13:27	Footkerchief	Relationship added	has duplicate 0003309
2011-02-22 13:11	Footkerchief	Relationship added	has duplicate 0003482
2011-02-22 13:11	Footkerchief	Issue Monitored: Hieronymous Alloy
2011-02-22 13:11	Footkerchief	Relationship added	related to 0001047
2011-02-23 08:49	Footkerchief	Relationship added	related to 0001522
2011-02-23 08:50	Footkerchief	Relationship deleted	related to 0001522
2011-02-23 08:50	Footkerchief	Relationship added	related to 0004049
2011-02-25 06:32	Infiltrator	Note Added: 0015497
2011-02-25 08:47	ellindsey	Note Added: 0015503
2011-02-25 08:48	Footkerchief	Relationship replaced	related to 0001275
2011-02-25 08:49	Footkerchief	Tag Attached: Intentional/Expected?
2011-03-12 12:45	troas	Tag Attached: duck
2011-03-12 12:45	troas	Tag Detached: duck
2011-03-17 05:46	afftor	Note Added: 0016322
2011-03-30 02:54	Dwarfu	Relationship added	has duplicate 0004384
2011-03-30 09:34	RossM	Note Added: 0016798
2011-03-30 09:36	RossM	Issue Monitored: RossM
2011-03-31 01:15	Footkerchief	Relationship added	related to 0004399
2011-04-06 23:53	Immacolata	Note Added: 0017150
2011-04-07 04:03	slink	Note Added: 0017152
2011-04-07 05:07	Immacolata	Note Added: 0017153
2011-04-08 12:20	king doom	Note Added: 0017207
2011-04-08 18:09	ellindsey	Note Added: 0017215
2011-04-17 01:01	Immacolata	Issue Monitored: Immacolata
2011-04-22 06:25	greycat	Note Added: 0017463
2011-07-09 19:05	ZzarkLinux	Note Added: 0018189
2011-07-23 02:16	Ghoulz	Issue Monitored: Ghoulz
2011-07-23 02:17	Ghoulz	Note Added: 0018297
2012-03-23 05:02	Buglist	Issue Monitored: Buglist
2012-03-27 04:07	Steb	Issue Monitored: Steb
2012-08-09 03:28	Knight Otu	Relationship added	has duplicate 0006156
2014-01-27 18:02	Footkerchief	Relationship added	has duplicate 0003964
2014-07-14 13:18	Footkerchief	Relationship added	related to 0007286
2014-07-14 13:18	Footkerchief	Relationship replaced	has duplicate 0007286
2014-07-23 10:06	Footkerchief	Relationship added	related to 0003993
2014-07-23 10:06	Footkerchief	Relationship added	related to 0003357
2014-07-23 10:06	Footkerchief	Relationship added	related to 0001522
2014-08-28 22:07	Footkerchief	Relationship added	related to 0004459
2017-01-28 15:31	FantasticDorf	Note Added: 0036234
2017-01-28 15:32	FantasticDorf	Note Edited: 0036234	View Revisions
2017-10-15 07:49	FantasticDorf	Note Deleted: 0036234
2017-10-18 05:07	FantasticDorf	Note Added: 0036798
2017-10-18 05:14	FantasticDorf	Note Edited: 0036798	View Revisions
2017-10-18 05:15	FantasticDorf	Note Edited: 0036798	View Revisions

Notes
(0002332) Footkerchief (manager) 2010-04-09 09:22	Just to corroborate, I've had this exact same problem with buzzards, right down to the corpses not rotting.

(0004093) Arnos (reporter) 2010-04-18 12:46	I have some buzzards. But it seems that my dwarfs butchered the normal ones just fine but left the "buzzard mutilated corpse" ones alone, I'm not sure if they rot yet...

(0006060) clamity (reporter) 2010-05-03 18:40	It seems to be 50/50 for me if my dorfs will butcher anything...the first wave of buzzards my current fort butchered fine, but any subsequent buzzards my dorfs refuse to acknowledge.

(0008168) ChickenLips (reporter) 2010-06-11 18:38 edited on: 2010-06-11 18:40	I can confirm this in .06. Two of the buzzards from the first spawning on the map are unbutcherable as described. EDIT: Unlike the original reporter, though, I did get skin from butchering the ones that were butcherable. No bones aside from the skull, though.

(0008333) oliver (reporter) 2010-06-13 15:43	Another datapoint: I suffered this bug and had a number of buzzard corpses (both intact and mutilated) hauled to a refuse stockpile with default settings; they then sat there, unbutcherable and unrotting. Some time later I created a new refuse stockpile just for unbutcherable stuff - set to take only elves/dwarves/humans/kobolds/reptilemen/buzzards corpses and body parts. I turned off the corresponding settings on my existing refuse pile. I did not set "take from stockpile" at all since that's known to be buggy, I just relied on normal hauling. All the other unbutcherable corpses have been moved, but the buzzard corpses remain, none of my haulers even tries to move them. So apparently something internally doesn't consider them to actually BE buzzard corpses despite the name, which could explain the unbutcherable/unrottable behaviour.

(0008334) ChickenLips (reporter) 2010-06-13 16:01	They do seem to have eventually rotted away in my game (I'm about 14 months into it since the Buzzard Incident) -- they had been Dumped into a Garbage zone outside, where I presumed they would lay permanently. Checking it, they're gone, and they don't show up on the Stocks screen.

(0008805) Footkerchief (manager) 2010-06-20 14:26 edited on: 2010-07-13 08:26	It would be helpful to upload saves with corpses of buzzards (or other animals) that can't be butchered and don't rot. http://dffd.wimbli.com/ [^]

(0010784) Hertzyscowicz (reporter) 2010-07-21 09:00	Does this involve job cancellation spam with auto-butcher turned on? If yes, I might well have this.

(0011480) greycat (reporter) 2010-08-04 06:48	http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=2896 [^] There's a fresh buzzard corpse in the junk zone (by the underground farm -- F2 then up one level). I dumped it out of the butcher shop, where the hunter dragged it after shooting it, because nobody was willing to butcher it. It does not generate an auto-butcher job. Queueing up a butcher job manually just gives a job cancellation, "Needs butcherable unrotten nearby item." This despite the [MUNDANE] tag in the raw file.

(0011815) KahunaGod (reporter) 2010-08-15 14:21	I have this problem with most anything, especially ettins, giants, etc......

(0011817) Footkerchief (manager) 2010-08-15 16:34	I have this problem with most anything, especially ettins, giants, etc...... That's not a bug. Ettins and giants are sentient creatures, so your dwarves won't butcher them for ethical reasons (just like kobolds etc.).

(0013291) d64 (reporter) 2010-10-10 02:13	Still happening with 31.16, when a bunch of enemies are killed, only a small minority of the corpses are "butcherable". Can't figure out any reason for this: they all seem similar, and they are in a refuse stockpile right next to the butcher's workshop.

(0013297) Quietust (reporter) 2010-10-10 09:16	Buzzards are quite amazingly tiny - when slaughtering them tame, it's quite common to get nothing but a skull. It's possible that if they're that small, your butchers don't think it's worth their time.

(0015497) Infiltrator (reporter) 2011-02-25 06:32	Here, I've told the butcher to butcher animals after he's done slaughtering. There are three buzzard corpses in the refuse stockpile, and one outside, as well as a water buffalo calf. The four buzzards died from my military because they were harassing me and the water buffalo starved to death because of the NW pasture bug (more are on their way). After unpausing, you'll see that he cancels butchering because of not being able to find a butcherable corpse. http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=3847 [^]

(0015503) ellindsey (reporter) 2011-02-25 08:47	Buzzards are usually too small to yield any meat, fat, or bone when butchered, so your butcher will not bother even trying to butcher them. Your own tame animals won't be butchered if they died from any cause other than being deliberately slaughtered at a butcher's shop, so your tame water buffalo corpse won't be butchered.

(0016322) afftor (reporter) 2011-03-17 05:46	I think the reason is really a blood spatters on the corpses. I shot down a few buzzards, some got butchered, some didn't. Those who didn't all have blood spatters on them.

(0016798) RossM (reporter) 2011-03-30 09:34	Seeing this in 0.31.23 with rabbits. Includes both rabbits with and without blood splatter. Very annoying, as my hunter wasted all his starting bolts and cluttered my refuse pile with rabbit corpses.

(0017150) Immacolata (reporter) 2011-04-06 23:53	I have a problem with ducks in my current 31.25 fort. My hunter shot up 4, they got dragged to the Refuse stockpile next to my Butcher's shop right away. when I try to queue a Butcher Dead animal job, I recive the Need nearby unrotten butcherable item error message. I am pretty sure the ducks were wild, they are not rotten, forbidden or anything. [IMG]http://i56.tinypic.com/2e5jc60.png[/IMG] [^] Are they too small for butchering?

(0017152) slink (reporter) 2011-04-07 04:03	I ordered several tame ducks slaughtered, and got the same result, but I did get some duck skulls. Did you check to see if you got the skulls?

(0017153) Immacolata (reporter) 2011-04-07 05:07	Slink, I did not even get that. If you click the link you see my abattoir setup. The dead ducks are in the stockpile as corpses, untouched. The butcher won't even pick them up, and they were never dumped in the butcher workshop by the hunter that shot them, but hauled to the refuse stockpile (which I enabled to take ducks). Now, why is a dead duck stocked in a refuse pile and not a corpse stockpile is beyond me to fathom. Terminology for dead stuff in the game is a bit murky at best :) Is it remains, refuse, corpse? What is it?

(0017207) king doom (reporter) 2011-04-08 12:20	I just had this happen in my fort - a buzzard flight attacked and was killed, half the bodies went to the butchers shop, mutilated buzzard corpses and buzzard corpses alike, and the four corpses remaining, two mutilated, two not, both have blodd splatters on them. This is in version 31.25

(0017215) ellindsey (reporter) 2011-04-08 18:09	Ducks are always too small to give anything but a skull when butchered. Buzzards are sometimes too small, sometimes not. Tame animals will always be slaughtered, even if they're too small to give anything but a skull. Wild animal corpses on the other hand will not be touched if they're too small to give anything but a skull. So yes, tame ducks you order to be butchered will give duck skulls, but wild duck corpses will be untouched.

(0017463) greycat (reporter) 2011-04-22 06:25	Also seeing this with rabbits in 0.31.25. My hunter shot a few, and dutifully took their corpses to the butcher's shop. The butcher won't butcher them, and attempting to force the job in the shop gives "Needs butcherable unrotten nearby item." They were wild, not tame.

(0018189) ZzarkLinux (reporter) 2011-07-09 19:05	I got the butcher rabbit bug too in 0.31.25 legacy. The butcher slays the rabbit fine, but then error "needs unrotten butcherable item" when trying to butcher it. I have a possessed dwarf who is mumbling about bones... but the rabbits do nothing. Uploaded the save at: http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=4649 [^] Hotkey F2 to look at the barnyard, select any tame rabbits to butcher. Hotkey F5 to look at the butcher shop, and the dwarf will slaughter the rabbit but not butcher it, butcher job cancels with alert.

(0018297) Ghoulz (reporter) 2011-07-23 02:17	If this really is an issue of the butcher not wanting to waste time on a corpse that yields no meat, then it would be nice if the hunters would be just as picky. It stinks wasting all your starting bolts on corpses that you can't butcher.

(0036798) FantasticDorf (reporter) 2017-10-18 05:07 edited on: 2017-10-18 05:15	Its a different reaction, but "creepy crawler" vermin from the caverns are size [1000] (twice that of a rabbit [500] and a tenth of a adult crundle [10000]) and can be butchered for BP meat via the "extract from dead animal" (which is false; creepy crawler is not dead and in a trapping cage) job show this is a issue with "butcher a animal" size definitions since that separate job has no difficulty. Crawlers have no bones and some generic BP of a heart, brain & muscles, comparably to other vermin & non vermin creatures who do have skeletons and bones in relative size inside them with no specific tags. - Please test whether non-vermin invertebrates with no exoskeletons and only muscular & meat BP can be butchered at small sizes. Could someone please put this up for possible revision as the creepy crawlers reaction seems inaccurate & the butchery process inconsistent, and i have left a suggestion regarding further discussion on the topic on the forums. ( http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=167867.0 [^] )