0003993: Cavies and rabbits produce no meat when slaughtered, but caravan still brings rabbit meat

(0015172)
Malibu Stacey (reporter)
2011-02-17 04:37
edited on: 2011-02-17 04:40

Doubt this is a bug. Kittens, young cats, buzzards & some other small creatures do the same. Check it's size next time before it's slaughtered. See 0001047

(0015176)
Quietust (reporter)
2011-02-17 05:44

Fully grown cavies are only 800 grams, so it's not surprising that you're not getting any meat from them.

(0015241)
GauHelldragon (reporter)
2011-02-18 09:27

ah i thought it was a pig of some kind, my mistake

(0015242)
Quietust (reporter)
2011-02-18 09:35
edited on: 2011-02-18 10:32

Technically, a cavy *is* a pig of some kind - specifically, it is a "guinea pig".

(0015294)
hoveringdog (reporter)
2011-02-19 22:40

I had this happen with a rabbit buck as well, purchased at embark. Seems like they should yield a little meat, as should cavies, both of which have been traditionally raised for that purpose.

(0015400)
Misterstone (reporter)
2011-02-22 12:07

Apparently people are having the same problem with lots of small grazing animals, including fowl of all kinds, rabbits, etc. Here is a thread:

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=78021.0 [^]

Even if this is not a 'bug' in the traditional sense, it does mean that food production requires some serious tweaking IMO. Why would anyone raise a guinea pig or rabbit if it doesn't provide any meat?

(0015456)
Infiltrator (reporter)
2011-02-24 10:48

Perhaps you really really don't like grass over your lovely soil?

One suggestion would be to make the minimum return regardless of size to be one meat. Not much thought put into that, but yeah.

(0015457)
Quietust (reporter)
2011-02-24 11:33

Misterstone: maybe they're meant to be raised as pets?

(0015687)
Misterstone (reporter)
2011-03-02 15:07

People traditionally raised rabbits and guinea pigs as food, same for chickens and other fowl. If it's not a bug, then in the future a feature will need to be added whereby small creature corpses can be roasted whole.

(0015692)
tatterdemalian (reporter)
2011-03-02 23:39

It was probably included for shearing... cavys are basically wooly guniea pigs.

Still, what with the ability to embark with a bushel (cubic meter?) of "monarch butterfly brains," the whole butchering/extracting system really needs an overhaul. You'd probably have to raise and kill dozens of the little buggers to get a single unit of meat, but that should be an option, like how melting "goblinite" returns bits of metal that eventually total one whole bar in the smelter. Except metal doesn't spoil like meat does...

(0015719)
monk12 (reporter)
2011-03-03 14:46

The Human caravan just arrived with a stack of rabbit meat. Now, you can't butcher monarch butterflies in game, but you can butcher rabbits- if humans can get meat out of it, why not dorfs?

(0015724)
Granite26 (reporter)
2011-03-04 06:17

Dwarves have stone, elves have wood, humans have meat.

(0015725)
Quietust (reporter)
2011-03-04 06:55

Considering how small they are, cavies and rabbits should probably be changed from large creatures to Vermin.

(0015917)
monk12 (reporter)
2011-03-07 12:31

True, its rather strange that turtles are vermin but cavies aren't. Myself, I'd rather turtles get promoted, but some kind of consistency would be nice.

(0016775)
Uristocrat (reporter)
2011-03-29 14:24

On a related note, dwarves can *like* various bodyparts that will never be available from butchering.

See this, which mentions chicken teeth, no less (I'm not sure if that should be reported as a bug itself...):
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=80865.0 [^]

There's a discussion of animal size vs. butchering results here:
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=78108.0 [^]

(0021722)
G-Flex (reporter)
2012-03-25 17:43
edited on: 2012-03-25 17:43

Judging by that thread, there's a whole lot of rounding error going on as it totals the edible products from different body parts; it really ought to consider the total amount of a given tissue before determining the number of food units given (and whether any are given at all). This alone could solve the issue with small animals while also making butchering results more sensible across the board.

Also, I'm quite late in saying this, but no, Quietust, cavies/guinea pigs are not a kind of pig any more than sea cucumbers are a kind of cucumber.

(0021729)
NW_Kohaku (reporter)
2012-03-25 22:43

This is from over a year ago, but here's a suggestion thread about these issues: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=78061.msg2009071#msg2009071 [^]

Basically, adding up percentages of meat (and other things) to give out from all the locations, and having a percentage chance to give out meat so that a cow might have, say, 42.14 units of meat, and so 86% chance for 42 meat plus a 14% chance for 43 meat.

Issue History
Date Modified	Username	Field	Change
2011-02-17 04:34	GauHelldragon	New Issue
2011-02-17 04:37	Malibu Stacey	Note Added: 0015172
2011-02-17 04:40	Malibu Stacey	Note Edited: 0015172	View Revisions
2011-02-17 05:44	Quietust	Note Added: 0015176
2011-02-17 06:47	Logical2u	Relationship added	child of 0001047
2011-02-18 09:27	GauHelldragon	Note Added: 0015241
2011-02-18 09:35	Quietust	Note Added: 0015242
2011-02-18 09:45	Quietust	Note Edited: 0015242	View Revisions
2011-02-18 10:32	Quietust	Note Edited: 0015242	View Revisions
2011-02-19 22:40	hoveringdog	Note Added: 0015294
2011-02-22 12:07	Misterstone	Note Added: 0015400
2011-02-24 10:48	Infiltrator	Note Added: 0015456
2011-02-24 11:33	Quietust	Note Added: 0015457
2011-03-02 15:07	Misterstone	Note Added: 0015687
2011-03-02 23:39	tatterdemalian	Note Added: 0015692
2011-03-03 14:46	monk12	Note Added: 0015719
2011-03-03 14:52	monk12	Issue Monitored: monk12
2011-03-03 15:12	Footkerchief	Summary	Cavy Boar produces Skull and nothing else => Cavies and rabbits produce no meat when slaughtered, but caravan still brings rabbit meat
2011-03-04 06:17	Granite26	Note Added: 0015724
2011-03-04 06:55	Quietust	Note Added: 0015725
2011-03-07 12:31	monk12	Note Added: 0015917
2011-03-09 02:42	Dwarfu	Relationship added	has duplicate 0004172
2011-03-29 14:24	Uristocrat	Note Added: 0016775
2011-03-29 20:17	Dwarfu	Relationship added	has duplicate 0004384
2011-03-30 02:54	Dwarfu	Relationship deleted	has duplicate 0004384
2012-03-25 17:43	G-Flex	Note Added: 0021722
2012-03-25 17:43	G-Flex	Note Edited: 0021722	View Revisions
2012-03-25 22:43	NW_Kohaku	Note Added: 0021729
2012-05-14 03:28	Knight Otu	Relationship added	has duplicate 0005874
2012-05-14 03:28	Knight Otu	Issue Monitored: ethan
2012-05-15 08:59	Footkerchief	Relationship added	related to 0003736
2014-07-23 10:05	Footkerchief	Relationship deleted	child of 0001047
2014-07-23 10:06	Footkerchief	Relationship added	related to 0000874

Notes
(0015172) Malibu Stacey (reporter) 2011-02-17 04:37 edited on: 2011-02-17 04:40	Doubt this is a bug. Kittens, young cats, buzzards & some other small creatures do the same. Check it's size next time before it's slaughtered. See 0001047

(0015176) Quietust (reporter) 2011-02-17 05:44	Fully grown cavies are only 800 grams, so it's not surprising that you're not getting any meat from them.

(0015241) GauHelldragon (reporter) 2011-02-18 09:27	ah i thought it was a pig of some kind, my mistake

(0015242) Quietust (reporter) 2011-02-18 09:35 edited on: 2011-02-18 10:32	Technically, a cavy is a pig of some kind - specifically, it is a "guinea pig".

(0015294) hoveringdog (reporter) 2011-02-19 22:40	I had this happen with a rabbit buck as well, purchased at embark. Seems like they should yield a little meat, as should cavies, both of which have been traditionally raised for that purpose.

(0015400) Misterstone (reporter) 2011-02-22 12:07	Apparently people are having the same problem with lots of small grazing animals, including fowl of all kinds, rabbits, etc. Here is a thread: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=78021.0 [^] Even if this is not a 'bug' in the traditional sense, it does mean that food production requires some serious tweaking IMO. Why would anyone raise a guinea pig or rabbit if it doesn't provide any meat?

(0015456) Infiltrator (reporter) 2011-02-24 10:48	Perhaps you really really don't like grass over your lovely soil? One suggestion would be to make the minimum return regardless of size to be one meat. Not much thought put into that, but yeah.

(0015457) Quietust (reporter) 2011-02-24 11:33	Misterstone: maybe they're meant to be raised as pets?

(0015687) Misterstone (reporter) 2011-03-02 15:07	People traditionally raised rabbits and guinea pigs as food, same for chickens and other fowl. If it's not a bug, then in the future a feature will need to be added whereby small creature corpses can be roasted whole.

(0015692) tatterdemalian (reporter) 2011-03-02 23:39	It was probably included for shearing... cavys are basically wooly guniea pigs. Still, what with the ability to embark with a bushel (cubic meter?) of "monarch butterfly brains," the whole butchering/extracting system really needs an overhaul. You'd probably have to raise and kill dozens of the little buggers to get a single unit of meat, but that should be an option, like how melting "goblinite" returns bits of metal that eventually total one whole bar in the smelter. Except metal doesn't spoil like meat does...

(0015719) monk12 (reporter) 2011-03-03 14:46	The Human caravan just arrived with a stack of rabbit meat. Now, you can't butcher monarch butterflies in game, but you can butcher rabbits- if humans can get meat out of it, why not dorfs?

(0015724) Granite26 (reporter) 2011-03-04 06:17	Dwarves have stone, elves have wood, humans have meat.

(0015725) Quietust (reporter) 2011-03-04 06:55	Considering how small they are, cavies and rabbits should probably be changed from large creatures to Vermin.

(0015917) monk12 (reporter) 2011-03-07 12:31	True, its rather strange that turtles are vermin but cavies aren't. Myself, I'd rather turtles get promoted, but some kind of consistency would be nice.

(0016775) Uristocrat (reporter) 2011-03-29 14:24	On a related note, dwarves can like various bodyparts that will never be available from butchering. See this, which mentions chicken teeth, no less (I'm not sure if that should be reported as a bug itself...): http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=80865.0 [^] There's a discussion of animal size vs. butchering results here: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=78108.0 [^]

(0021722) G-Flex (reporter) 2012-03-25 17:43 edited on: 2012-03-25 17:43	Judging by that thread, there's a whole lot of rounding error going on as it totals the edible products from different body parts; it really ought to consider the total amount of a given tissue before determining the number of food units given (and whether any are given at all). This alone could solve the issue with small animals while also making butchering results more sensible across the board. Also, I'm quite late in saying this, but no, Quietust, cavies/guinea pigs are not a kind of pig any more than sea cucumbers are a kind of cucumber.

(0021729) NW_Kohaku (reporter) 2012-03-25 22:43	This is from over a year ago, but here's a suggestion thread about these issues: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=78061.msg2009071#msg2009071 [^] Basically, adding up percentages of meat (and other things) to give out from all the locations, and having a percentage chance to give out meat so that a cow might have, say, 42.14 units of meat, and so 86% chance for 42 meat plus a 14% chance for 43 meat.