0004366: Animals in large pastures fight despite abundance of space

Notes
(0016703) Kogut (reporter) 2011-03-27 23:43 edited on: 2011-03-27 23:44	I suggest to upload save

(0016705) Kumquat (reporter) 2011-03-28 01:03	I was about to report this same bug in .22, and this seems to be happening in .24 too. All I had was 5 yaks in a 20x20 pasture. I haven't noticed pigs or sheep fighting yet.

(0016713) danaris (reporter) 2011-03-28 04:42	I had a similar problem with a water buffalo bull, a reindeer calf, and a horse in a 10x10 pasture in .22 (I think, might have been .21). I had to move the water buffalo bull to its own pasture separated from the others.

(0016718) Granite26 (reporter) 2011-03-28 08:44	Is the problem that they are all being dropped off at the same point and not spreading out?

(0016845) DoktorV (reporter) 2011-03-31 04:37 edited on: 2011-03-31 05:17	Livestock fighting if kept in excessively close confinement is intended behavior, but I have observed that they start fighting immediately if several animals are herded to the same pasture at the same time. Even though the pasture may be quite large, they start fighting within seconds. I now have a save where I designated pasturing immediately upon arrival. The combat reports show animals fighting the same in-game day. http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=4090 [^] I suspect that something like this is occurring: If several animals are herded to the same pasture at about the same time, they are all dropped off on the same tile, and the animal aggression code is triggering too fast. Additionally, I think that grazing animals probably don't move until they have eaten all the grass on the tile they're standing on, which aggravates the problem. I don't know what sort of movement routine is operating on the poultry.

(0016846) dieffenbachj (reporter) 2011-03-31 05:23	I've had severe problems where I have a massive pasture, only 3 or 4 animals in it... but since they INSIST on grazing in the same area, I'll glance over and I'll always see two of them either adjacent to each other, or in the same tile. And inevitably, even with only a couple animals on a huge pasture, there will be deaths and missing limbs and broken spines and all manner of nasty business. I think animals in a pen need to have code for spreading out. It's not just enough to have them drift apart on their own--I think they need to actively try to keep space between them (and then, if too many animals are put into one pen / the grass is only edible on one side, THEN they'll get closer and start dying...) It's not even a problem with being dropped off and not spreading out, since this behavior will be maintained for years. There's no point in keeping animals for milk or cloth, just slaughter them as soon as possible lest they cripple or kill each other because you put two in the same huge pen and they decided to sit on each other's faces...

(0016862) danaris (reporter) 2011-03-31 10:17	Oh, I think I should also note: I have noticed some of my animals seeming to "follow" each other, with a horse and a mule in a single square, then when one moves, the other moves immediately after to the same square. I have not observed these "stacked" animals fighting; however, I can't be sure that they don't eventually. ~ TGC

(0016863) Kumquat (reporter) 2011-03-31 10:25	The problem is that animals browse on pastures in "typewriter order". Every hungry animal ends up packed onto the same tile and start fighting. Larger animals are worse with this, since they eat more. Sheep manage fairly well, yaks and water buffaloes are nearly impossible, can't have more than one or two on a pasture of any size. They are pretty much always hungry.

(0021983) Kogut (reporter) 2012-04-01 07:38	34.07 save: http://dffd.wimbli.com/submit.php?action=message&fid=6058 [^]

(0027184) King Mir (reporter) 2014-07-21 23:33 edited on: 2014-07-21 23:35	According to bug 7554(http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=7554 [^]), in 0.40 the pendulum swung the other way, and animals don't fight much at all. So this should probably be closed. The typewriter problem still exists however.

(0030671) clanl (reporter) 2014-10-19 06:29	Can this be marked as resolved? It seems this should be fixed with 0004367

(0031128) Tristan Alkai (reporter) 2014-11-22 14:30	@clanl: Not so fast. This bug and 0004367 refer to different things: respectively, an effect and a cause of overcrowding. With 0004367 fixed, this one will manifest less frequently, but animals grazing in typewriter order is not the only thing that can lead to crowding despite a suitably large pasture (the easiest example is breeding poultry and packing their next boxes too close together). That fix is neither necessary nor sufficient to call this bug resolved. That said, I agree with King Mir that 0007554 may be an undocumented fix of this one. Apologies if this makes the previous comments come across as overly pedantic. On the other hand, the code (requested by DoktorV) for an animal to perceive itself as crowded and attempt to spread out would have other benefits. 1. Multiple animals on the same tile are more difficult for the player to count. 2. Attempting to avoid crowds could help keep multiple grazers from targeting the same patch of grass. 3. Attempting to maintain space between animals could help pastured livestock avoid presenting a roadblock to pathing dwarves (assuming, of course, that the pasture itself is big enough).

(0031183) Toady One (administrator) 2014-11-25 13:25	I haven't worked on any spreading-out code, but with the typewriter fix from before and timer balance (for 0.40.19) this'll be closed enough. We can revisit further behavior off the tracker (unless something goes wrong).

Issue History
Date Modified	Username	Field	Change
2011-03-27 20:23	DoktorV	New Issue
2011-03-27 22:42	DoktorV	Tag Attached: pasture
2011-03-27 23:43	Kogut	Note Added: 0016703
2011-03-27 23:44	Kogut	Note Edited: 0016703	View Revisions
2011-03-28 01:03	Kumquat	Note Added: 0016705
2011-03-28 04:42	danaris	Note Added: 0016713
2011-03-28 08:44	Granite26	Note Added: 0016718
2011-03-31 03:16	Dwarfu	Relationship added	related to 0004402
2011-03-31 04:37	DoktorV	Note Added: 0016845
2011-03-31 04:57	DoktorV	Note Edited: 0016845	View Revisions
2011-03-31 05:17	DoktorV	Note Edited: 0016845	View Revisions
2011-03-31 05:23	dieffenbachj	Note Added: 0016846
2011-03-31 10:17	danaris	Note Added: 0016862
2011-03-31 10:25	Kumquat	Note Added: 0016863
2011-03-31 14:04	Dawide	Issue Monitored: Dawide
2011-04-02 13:50	Footkerchief	Relationship added	related to 0004367
2012-04-01 07:38	Kogut	Note Added: 0021983
2014-07-21 23:33	King Mir	Note Added: 0027184
2014-07-21 23:34	King Mir	Note Edited: 0027184	View Revisions
2014-07-21 23:35	King Mir	Note Edited: 0027184	View Revisions
2014-07-21 23:35	King Mir	Note Edited: 0027184	View Revisions
2014-10-19 06:29	clanl	Note Added: 0030671
2014-11-22 14:30	Tristan Alkai	Note Added: 0031128
2014-11-24 06:58	Footkerchief	Relationship added	related to 0007554
2014-11-24 06:58	Footkerchief	Assigned To	=> Footkerchief
2014-11-24 06:58	Footkerchief	Status	new => needs feedback
2014-11-25 13:25	Toady One	Note Added: 0031183
2014-11-25 13:25	Toady One	Status	needs feedback => resolved
2014-11-25 13:25	Toady One	Resolution	open => fixed
2014-11-25 13:25	Toady One	Assigned To	Footkerchief => Toady One
2014-11-25 16:18	lethosor	Fixed in Version	=> Next Version
2015-12-11 18:41	Dwarfu	Relationship added	parent of 0009246