0000051: Cavern collapse at embark - Dwarf Fortress Bug Tracker

Notes
(0000496) Khamero (reporter) 2010-04-03 07:11	I can confirm the wagon thing, happened to me too. Nothing missing, but the entire party was crowded in a very tight spot with all the stuff. Not sure how to reproduce, since you start off a random spot though.

(0000507) Logical2u (manager) 2010-04-03 07:43	The wagon thing is pretty old - see http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=20883.0 [^] - but I don't think anyone reported it as a bug. Did the volcano collapsing cause any other issues? There have been general issues in the past few versions with unsupported tiles collapsing at the start of gameplay due to how time and roofing is handled during and after worldgen.

(0000658) DoctorZuber (reporter) 2010-04-03 14:16	I can also confirm that I've seen the occasional collapse near a magma pipe in 40d. However with all the new 'stuff' in 2010 there are some new collapse issues as well.

(0001574) bevilr (reporter) 2010-04-06 13:49 edited on: 2010-04-06 13:51	I'll had "Cavern Collapse" messages at embark twice so far, with no visible magma pipes on the surface (although I haven't dug down yet).

(0001616) drakiskier (reporter) 2010-04-06 17:14	i get this one too. it zooms to a spot underground on embark and says cavern colapse.

(0002739) ItEndsWithTens (reporter) 2010-04-11 00:22	I just ran into the cavern collapse issue on a new fortress, and I don't see a magma pipe either; I have an embark autosave zipped up, along with my worldgen parameters if the time comes where it'll be necessary (generated in 31.01, but I started this fort in 31.02).

(0004386) smjjames (reporter) 2010-04-20 15:51	I just got it on an embark (the zoom to location function of the announcements is extremely useful here), so I dug down centering on the location. When I got to the area and it was revealed, I used the zoom to location, and guess what I found. It was on the edge of a magma pool where there was a floor one z-level above the rim and it centered on a corner of the floor area. In fact, it was an unsuppourted corner. The cavern collapse happens every time I embark on that spot. Looks like we found the cause (or at least the main cause) which is the same reason why we sometimes get a collapse at an open magma pipe upon embark. The floor at that spot is a galena floor, but there is no galena nearby on the same z level as the magma pool or a level above (where the floor was). However, at the top z-level of that cavern section (4 z-levels above magma pool surface) part of the wall is galena. Not sure if the ore had anything to do with it. Also, the piece of floor that it was hanging off of is galena too, but thats the only tile of it, the rest of that floor and the area around the magma pool is obsidian (along the edge), mica, granite and the eroded part of a tetrahedrite vein on the same z-level as the pool surface. Makes you wonder how that isolated bit of galena got there... Fakeedit: I just now noticed a galena vein on the other side of the pipe a z-level above. I guess that explains it.

(0004449) Frewfrux (reporter) 2010-04-21 08:24	Heh, I just had this happen on a map with no surface magma vent. After the initial "a section of cavern has collapsed" message with a zoom to un-revealed rock way down low on the map, I checked my units and saw a deceesed magma man. Guess he was in the wrong spot at just the right time. :)

(0005252) Thoranius (reporter) 2010-04-26 20:24	I've had this happen once as well upon embark, on a completely flat map, about 100+ levels down, according to the autofocus pause of the screen. I regret that I failed to note the exact depth, but since that save file is long gone, I doubt the specifics would of helped track down the exact issue, though it did happen after the release of the 31.03 version, so maybe it's related to the cavern generation sizing variables versus the new 7x7 collapse setup? No magma vents, aquafiers, or anything out of the ordinary, just a stream at ground level.

(0005286) DoctorZuber (reporter) 2010-04-26 22:42 edited on: 2010-04-27 12:20	http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=2246 [^] Here's a save that has an immediate underground collapse. This is a nice cozy little pocket region, so the save file is nice and small. Be warned that I was testing extreme temperature settings with this world so the play time on this save will be very . . . short. Warning, looking at this save using reveal contains SPOILERS!!!

(0005316) fake_robot (reporter) 2010-04-27 03:09	I had a cavern collapse upon embark. Being naturally curious, I dug down to -45. Upon arrival, I witnessed a magma pipe spilling into an underground cavern. The most unusual thing about this was all the cavern trees, happily still growing in 4/7 magma. Note to self, Fungiwood is an amazingly flame-retardant mushroom. After I uncovered it, I kept getting another cavern collapse message that seemed to be 1 tile infinitely smashing into the magma sea, about once every few in game days.

(0005361) DoctorZuber (reporter) 2010-04-27 10:54 edited on: 2010-04-27 10:56	oookay... I just had another crazy collapse in one of my hot region experiments. The place is completely uninhabitable with the entire surface of the world burning to death instantly smoke everywhere. It's also spamming me to death with collapse warnings. every time I try to unpause it allows one frame to pass, throws another collapse warning and pauses again. It's somewhat comical. I don't want to flood the place with saves, but I stashed a copy in a safe folder, and can produce it upon demand. >>>Fake Robot -- Trees are still magma safe as far as I can tell, so this is expected behavior.

(0005362) Logical2u (manager) 2010-04-27 10:58	Zuber: If you wouldn't mind, since this is in a world you're experimenting in, try using the Reveal Utility (http://magmawiki.com/index.php/DF2010:Utilities [^]) and see what is causing the collapses, and report back here?

(0005366) DoctorZuber (reporter) 2010-04-27 11:43 edited on: 2010-04-27 12:11	Oooh, I didn't know we had a trick for making reveal work already. Thankies muchly. Oddly enough, on closer inspection, the collapse is not subterranean. It's a single tile on the surface. The pesky tile is on the edge of a volcano and it is repeatedly collapsing somehow. It happens very fast, collapses once every frame. Alright, that's just too weird, so I went ahead and uploaded it. And it's small anyhow. Here you go. http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=2251 [^]

(0005369) DoctorZuber (reporter) 2010-04-27 12:19	And since I now have access to reveal again, I revisit my other save to find . . . SPOILERS!!! This collapse is directly related to a new HFS feature. If you don't want to see spoilers, do not download it, and whatever you do, do not look at it using reveal. http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=2246 [^]

(0005377) Footkerchief (manager) 2010-04-27 12:57 edited on: 2010-04-27 12:58	What's needed for this bug is saves from before embarking at an insta-collapse site, plus screenshots of the embark screen so he knows where to embark. The bug is in the code that generates the local terrain at embark, and that code has already finished running when you do a post-embark save.

(0005392) DoctorZuber (reporter) 2010-04-27 13:51	that's trickier, since it automatically destroys that save when you embark... Humm... Any suggestions on how to do this without driving myself insane copying every region folder before embarking in the hopes of reproducing a collapse ?

(0005396) Footkerchief (manager) 2010-04-27 13:59	that's trickier, since it automatically destroys that save when you embark Only if you turned on the embark autosave option. Otherwise you can just end the process and re-embark, as long as you remember where.

(0005421) DoctorZuber (reporter) 2010-04-27 15:55	um... I do have embark autosave, both of those are the embark autosave files.

(0005424) Logical2u (manager) 2010-04-27 16:12	... Well, you've got the save. All you need to do now is 1. Abandon 2. Mark the place on the map where the fortress was using the Reclaim feature 3. Go to Legends mode and export the seed and world generation info 4. Regenerate the world using the seed and world generation information 5. Upload that new world for us! Success!

(0005455) DoctorZuber (reporter) 2010-04-27 20:13 edited on: 2010-04-27 20:30	>>> Logical2u -- Thank you very much. This process will save me all sorts of sanity. Okay, It took a bit of time to get this all sorted but I believe I now have both saves updated with the pre-embark saves. HFS Collapse http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=2246 [^] Down in the deep earth some HFS collapses. If you don't want a spoiler, don't download it, and don't look at it with reveal. Repeating Collapse http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=2251 [^] This is especially fun. The collapse is a single tile at the edge of a volcano. And it's collapsing repeatedly. It spams a collapse every single frame and just refuses to die. For extra bonus fun, it even continues to collapse on a reclaim of the site. Assuming I didn't bork anything up both saves are now updated to include both pre and post embark saves and a png illustrating the location on the world map. If there's any problems give me a hollar here. I'll notice sooner or later.

(0005456) Logical2u (manager) 2010-04-27 20:21	Well, the first one works for me. I'll check the 2nd one later if needed. Thanks for your work!

(0005718) Hugna (reporter) 2010-04-29 17:13	My guess is that most likely the underground caverns. They can get as open as they want, meaning if they were as open as the entire map, or big enough, it will cave in and immediately cause quite a bad collapse. Best to hope it's not where you embarked.

(0005730) DoctorZuber (reporter) 2010-04-29 21:09	well, one of my saves basically is from an underground cavern, looking at it it seems like the ramps connecting one level to another cut off a corner of a HFS feature causing a collapse. The other is stranger, although it might also be cut off by ramping too, it's a single tile at the edge of a volcano, right up at the top.

(0006140) pollo2019 (reporter) 2010-05-04 22:56	Cave-in for me as well. At Embark

(0006835) sagragoth (reporter) 2010-05-16 19:59	Happened to me on 0.31.04.

(0008770) ellindsey (reporter) 2010-06-20 08:13	I have a fortress currently running in 31.07 in which I will usually get a collapse nearly every time I load the game. The collapse is always deep underground, not always in the exact same location but usually in one region. The collapses occur in the lowermost layers of caverns. Looking at that region I see what appears to be a large number of plants and trees floating in midair, as apparently many of the empty spaces have mud in them and this is causing plants to grow in the empty midair spaces. I'm not sure why the cave-ins are only happening when I load the game and not whenever a floating tree matures.

(0010246) JZE (reporter) 2010-07-14 11:13	I have had this experience too, but every time I zoom to location the map indicates I am at a level below ground that cannot possibly exist, such as -150. Not sure if this is a seperate bug or part of the same issue.

(0010247) Footkerchief (manager) 2010-07-14 11:34	I have had this experience too, but every time I zoom to location the map indicates I am at a level below ground that cannot possibly exist, such as -150. Not sure if this is a seperate bug or part of the same issue. What makes you think it "cannot possibly exist"? The underground goes down much deeper now -- 150 isn't out of the ordinary.

(0010372) MaDeR Levap (reporter) 2010-07-15 13:19	If this was caused by too big cavern to fit in embark area or something similiar, fix for it is simple - just treat border of map as supporting natural preexisting rock. You cannot build anything too close to edge of map anyway.

(0010694) smjjames (reporter) 2010-07-19 15:17	How about this big bad one? http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=2750 [^] A warning though, prepare for MASSIVE lag.

(0010696) Footkerchief (manager) 2010-07-19 15:53	Reminder sent to: smjjames Re: 0002268:0010692, ~10693, 0000051:0010694 In the future, please pick one (1) location to post your save.

(0010697) smjjames (reporter) 2010-07-19 15:56 edited on: 2010-07-19 16:04	Sorry, just thought it might be relevant to all three, so I posted in all three places. Thats what Logical2U suggested when he duplicate closed the report I made. Edit: After reading 495, I changed my mind since that one involves a much, much bigger collapse.

(0011235) sparr (reporter) 2010-07-29 02:58	I encountered an embark collapse and it also produced an invisible (at the time) underground building named "Untold (☼adamantium short sword☼)".

(0011242) Rafal99 (reporter) 2010-07-29 06:20 edited on: 2010-07-29 06:20	I have 1-tile cave-in at my current embark location. I used reveal and it showed that there is one floor tile that is connected only diagonally to others and is collapsing immediatelly when I enable cave-ins. The tile is 1 level above a magma pipe, not even sure if it is magma pipe at all since it is just a circular magma thing going only 2 levels above the magma sea. Might provide the save at any moment if needed.

(0011246) smjjames (reporter) 2010-07-29 07:41	@Sparr: In my search for a good embark area, I've run into cave ins that were revealed to have origionated from next to the demonic fortress several times. Likely related to the same thing that is happening with magma pipes. @Rafal99: It is a magma pipe, just a tiny one :P . It happens.

(0011347) InsanityPrelude (reporter) 2010-07-31 21:27	I had one in the current version, but I forget if it was the fort on the volcano or not. At any rate, zoom to black space 15 z-levels down and "A section of the cavern has collapsed!" immediately upon embark.

(0013086) Jonathan Conley (reporter) 2010-09-30 11:10	I am getting another cavern collapse in un reviled space as well, upon using df revel i am seeing a cavern lake emptying out on top of a magma pipe

(0013414) greycat (reporter) 2010-10-19 11:49	http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=3297 [^] This map has a collapsing cavern system. It collapses spontaneously, without dwarves being in or near it, multiple times per game-year. It is extremely like to collapse after saving/loading as well. Here's a tarball of the region directory right before loading. The cavern collapses upon loading.

(0019062) Dwarfu (manager) 2011-12-04 08:40	This report, its children and relations will need to be verified in the new version based on today's devlog: "...and what was hopefully the main cause of all those long-standing cave-in-on-embarks." http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/index.html#2011-12-03 [^]

(0019382) MaDeR Levap (reporter) 2012-01-13 09:24	I think we will have to close these kind of bug reports. Same seed now will produce different world (and I am not talking about preventing detached tiles, but about generating completely different world, where your old site just do not exist), so we will have just to wait for new reports of same thing.

(0019384) Footkerchief (manager) 2012-01-13 10:19	We've discussed that with Toady: "In general, old saves will still be good because I have the full code from all of the released versions from the last few years, and most of the code doesn't change between versions, so I can still find and fix problems in a relevant fashion." In other words, save incompatibility won't invalidate all the saves and world gen params that have been posted for existing reports.

(0020145) Kijiro (reporter) 2012-02-19 11:22 edited on: 2012-02-19 11:26	Cavern collapse on embark, lava in the sky! Craziness! Save game is paused so you can look around. Embarking on the same spot replicates the issue. http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=5306 [^] edit: I did not embark on a volcano. edit2: I tried embarking on another location nearby and the game just outright crashed. :(

(0021173) Footkerchief (manager) 2012-03-06 09:01	Time for this old report to be laid to rest. 0005077 probably caused 95% of these problems. Some remaining issues are collected at 0001791.

Issue History
Date Modified	Username	Field	Change
2010-04-01 17:11	Draco18s	New Issue
2010-04-02 01:20	Dwarfu	Tag Attached: cave-in
2010-04-02 01:20	Dwarfu	Tag Attached: collapse
2010-04-03 07:11	Khamero	Note Added: 0000496
2010-04-03 07:43	Logical2u	Note Added: 0000507
2010-04-03 09:02	Footkerchief	Relationship added	parent of 0000081
2010-04-03 09:02	Footkerchief	Relationship added	parent of 0000098
2010-04-03 14:16	DoctorZuber	Note Added: 0000658
2010-04-05 15:45	Footkerchief	Relationship added	parent of 0000495
2010-04-06 00:46	Footkerchief	Relationship added	parent of 0000590
2010-04-06 09:40	Footkerchief	Relationship added	parent of 0000633
2010-04-06 13:30	Footkerchief	Summary	Volcanoe Cavern Collapse => Cavern collapse at embark (on volcano site)
2010-04-06 13:30	Footkerchief	Additional Information Updated	View Revisions
2010-04-06 13:30	Footkerchief	Sticky Issue	No => Yes
2010-04-06 13:41	Footkerchief	Summary	Cavern collapse at embark (on volcano site) => Cavern collapse at embark
2010-04-06 13:49	bevilr	Note Added: 0001574
2010-04-06 13:51	bevilr	Note Edited: 0001574	View Revisions
2010-04-06 17:14	drakiskier	Note Added: 0001616
2010-04-09 04:36	Khym Chanur	Issue Monitored: Khym Chanur
2010-04-09 09:06	Footkerchief	Relationship added	parent of 0000864
2010-04-11 00:22	ItEndsWithTens	Note Added: 0002739
2010-04-20 15:51	smjjames	Note Added: 0004386
2010-04-21 08:24	Frewfrux	Note Added: 0004449
2010-04-22 10:32	Footkerchief	Relationship added	parent of 0001339
2010-04-26 20:24	Thoranius	Note Added: 0005252
2010-04-26 22:42	DoctorZuber	Note Added: 0005286
2010-04-26 22:43	DoctorZuber	Note Edited: 0005286	View Revisions
2010-04-27 03:09	fake_robot	Note Added: 0005316
2010-04-27 10:54	DoctorZuber	Note Added: 0005361
2010-04-27 10:56	DoctorZuber	Note Edited: 0005361	View Revisions
2010-04-27 10:58	Logical2u	Note Added: 0005362
2010-04-27 11:43	DoctorZuber	Note Added: 0005366
2010-04-27 12:11	DoctorZuber	Note Edited: 0005366	View Revisions
2010-04-27 12:19	DoctorZuber	Note Added: 0005369
2010-04-27 12:20	DoctorZuber	Note Edited: 0005286	View Revisions
2010-04-27 12:57	Footkerchief	Note Added: 0005377
2010-04-27 12:57	Footkerchief	Note Edited: 0005377	View Revisions
2010-04-27 12:58	Footkerchief	Note Edited: 0005377	View Revisions
2010-04-27 12:58	Footkerchief	Note Edited: 0005377	View Revisions
2010-04-27 13:51	DoctorZuber	Note Added: 0005392
2010-04-27 13:59	Footkerchief	Note Added: 0005396
2010-04-27 15:55	DoctorZuber	Note Added: 0005421
2010-04-27 16:12	Logical2u	Note Added: 0005424
2010-04-27 20:13	DoctorZuber	Note Added: 0005455
2010-04-27 20:21	Logical2u	Note Added: 0005456
2010-04-27 20:30	DoctorZuber	Note Edited: 0005455	View Revisions
2010-04-28 14:01	Footkerchief	Category	General => Map Features
2010-04-29 13:18	Footkerchief	Category	Map Features => Cave-ins
2010-04-29 17:13	Hugna	Note Added: 0005718
2010-04-29 21:09	DoctorZuber	Note Added: 0005730
2010-05-04 22:54	pollo2019	Issue Monitored: pollo2019
2010-05-04 22:56	pollo2019	Note Added: 0006140
2010-05-16 19:59	sagragoth	Note Added: 0006835
2010-05-27 18:51	ItEndsWithTens	Issue Monitored: ItEndsWithTens
2010-06-10 16:49	Logical2u	Relationship added	related to 0002268
2010-06-20 08:13	ellindsey	Note Added: 0008770
2010-06-20 09:25	Footkerchief	Relationship deleted	parent of 0001339
2010-06-21 05:29	Logical2u	Relationship added	parent of 0002411
2010-07-08 04:40	Logical2u	Relationship added	parent of 0002594
2010-07-14 11:13	JZE	Note Added: 0010246
2010-07-14 11:13	JZE	Issue Monitored: JZE
2010-07-14 11:34	Footkerchief	Note Added: 0010247
2010-07-14 11:34	Footkerchief	Relationship replaced	has duplicate 0000081
2010-07-14 11:34	Footkerchief	Issue Monitored: Avenger
2010-07-14 11:34	Footkerchief	Issue Monitored: cyclotis04
2010-07-14 11:35	Footkerchief	Relationship added	related to 0001791
2010-07-14 11:35	Footkerchief	Relationship replaced	has duplicate 0000098
2010-07-14 11:37	Footkerchief	Relationship added	related to 0000127
2010-07-14 11:37	Footkerchief	Relationship deleted	parent of 0000590
2010-07-14 11:38	Footkerchief	Relationship replaced	has duplicate 0000633
2010-07-14 11:38	Footkerchief	Relationship replaced	has duplicate 0000864
2010-07-14 11:39	Footkerchief	Relationship deleted	parent of 0002411
2010-07-14 11:41	Footkerchief	Relationship deleted	parent of 0002594
2010-07-15 13:19	MaDeR Levap	Note Added: 0010372
2010-07-19 15:12	Logical2u	Relationship added	has duplicate 0002766
2010-07-19 15:17	smjjames	Note Added: 0010694
2010-07-19 15:53	Footkerchief	Issue Monitored: smjjames
2010-07-19 15:53	Footkerchief	Note Added: 0010696
2010-07-19 15:56	smjjames	Note Added: 0010697
2010-07-19 16:03	smjjames	Note Edited: 0010697	View Revisions
2010-07-19 16:04	smjjames	Note Edited: 0010697	View Revisions
2010-07-19 16:10	smjjames	Issue End Monitor: smjjames
2010-07-29 02:58	sparr	Note Added: 0011235
2010-07-29 06:20	Rafal99	Note Added: 0011242
2010-07-29 06:20	Rafal99	Note Edited: 0011242	View Revisions
2010-07-29 07:41	smjjames	Note Added: 0011246
2010-07-31 21:27	InsanityPrelude	Note Added: 0011347
2010-08-18 16:35	Logical2u	Relationship added	related to 0000590
2010-08-18 16:36	Logical2u	Relationship added	related to 0001503
2010-09-24 19:01	Logical2u	Relationship added	related to 0003310
2010-09-30 11:10	Jonathan Conley	Note Added: 0013086
2010-10-03 07:42	Logical2u	Relationship added	related to 0003319
2010-10-19 11:49	greycat	Note Added: 0013414
2010-11-17 08:32	Logical2u	Relationship added	has duplicate 0003653
2010-11-17 08:32	Logical2u	Relationship replaced	parent of 0003319
2011-05-01 15:12	Logical2u	Relationship added	has duplicate 0004602
2011-07-29 06:52	Footkerchief	Relationship added	parent of 0004791
2011-12-04 08:40	Dwarfu	Note Added: 0019062
2011-12-04 08:40	Dwarfu	Tag Attached: Fixed in 0.31.26?
2011-12-04 08:40	Dwarfu	Tag Attached: Save Included
2011-12-25 06:59	Footkerchief	Relationship added	parent of 0004163
2012-01-02 14:40	Footkerchief	Relationship added	has duplicate 0005003
2012-01-13 09:24	MaDeR Levap	Note Added: 0019382
2012-01-13 10:19	Footkerchief	Note Added: 0019384
2012-02-14 05:12	Footkerchief	Tag Renamed	Fixed in 0.31.26? => Fixed in 0.34.01?
2012-02-17 08:02	Footkerchief	Relationship added	related to 0002713
2012-02-19 11:11	Footkerchief	Relationship added	parent of 0005306
2012-02-19 11:22	Kijiro	Note Added: 0020145
2012-02-19 11:22	Kijiro	Note Edited: 0020145	View Revisions
2012-02-19 11:26	Kijiro	Note Edited: 0020145	View Revisions
2012-02-23 18:46	Footkerchief	Relationship added	has duplicate 0005422
2012-03-06 07:59	Footkerchief	Relationship deleted	related to 0000590
2012-03-06 08:00	Footkerchief	Relationship replaced	has duplicate 0000495
2012-03-06 08:00	Footkerchief	Issue Monitored: Logical2u
2012-03-06 08:00	Footkerchief	Issue Monitored: lord_chaos22000
2012-03-06 08:01	Footkerchief	Relationship replaced	has duplicate 0004791
2012-03-06 08:01	Footkerchief	Issue Monitored: vasiln
2012-03-06 08:01	Footkerchief	Relationship deleted	parent of 0004163
2012-03-06 08:01	Footkerchief	Relationship deleted	parent of 0005306
2012-03-06 08:02	Footkerchief	Relationship deleted	parent of 0003319
2012-03-06 08:57	Footkerchief	Relationship deleted	related to 0001503
2012-03-06 08:59	Footkerchief	Relationship deleted	related to 0003310
2012-03-06 09:00	Footkerchief	Relationship deleted	related to 0000127
2012-03-06 09:01	Footkerchief	Note Added: 0021173
2012-03-06 09:01	Footkerchief	Relationship added	duplicate of 0005077
2012-03-06 09:01	Footkerchief	Status	new => resolved
2012-03-06 09:01	Footkerchief	Resolution	open => duplicate
2012-03-06 09:01	Footkerchief	Assigned To	=> Footkerchief
2012-03-06 09:01	Footkerchief	Tag Detached: Fixed in 0.34.01?
2012-03-07 20:27	Dwarfu	Sticky Issue	Yes => No
2012-03-30 06:57	Footkerchief	Relationship added	has duplicate 0001690
2012-03-30 06:57	Footkerchief	Issue Monitored: Cryten
2014-08-15 06:59	Footkerchief	Relationship added	related to 0007250