0000812: Human civs lack STONE_PREF, only produce bronze items, have no anvils

(0002127)
SirPenguin (reporter)
2010-04-08 12:47

By forge, do you mean anvil?

(0002133)
anomaly (reporter)
2010-04-08 13:07

oh, duh. yeah an anvil.

(0002143)
Footkerchief (manager)
2010-04-08 13:27

There are only three metals with the ITEMS_ANVIL tag: iron, steel, and adamantine. If you add the tag to bronze, you should be able to embark with an anvil.

Humans only seem to use bronze, for some reason. That's the part of this report that seems to be a bug, so I'll retitle the report accordingly.

(0002497)
Creidieki (reporter)
2010-04-09 20:10

The entity file for humans doesn't include a PERMITTED_REACTION tag for steel; then again, neither humans nor dwarfs have a PERMITTED_REACTION for iron. This behavior may be intentional.

(0002529)
anomaly (reporter)
2010-04-10 01:09

They never were able to use steel, but disabling the use of iron puts them at approximately kobold technology levels.

(0002617)
Footkerchief (manager)
2010-04-10 11:28
edited on: 2010-04-10 11:29

Wait, if you disable iron they can no longer use bronze? That ain't right. How are you disabling the use of iron anyway?

(0002642)
anomaly (reporter)
2010-04-10 14:06

I don't really know what's going on with this anymore because I abandoned my human town due to the lack of being able to build a metalsmith's forge.

All I know is that humans cannot embark with anvils and human caravans never carry them (they used to carry them in 40d).

I consider this to be a bug.

If toadyone wished to turn the human civilization into a primitive tribe-like civilization without the ability to use metalworking, then I suppose this is intentional.

(0009521)
Knight Otu (manager)
2010-07-02 08:42

The reason humans don't use iron is that the human entity lacks STONE_PREF. As this ( http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=55680.msg1201042#msg1201042 [^] ) thread explains, STONE_PREF allows an entity to directly use ore metals (though I found that it's not quite complete - an entity that lacks material for weapons will use all metals, presumably as a failsafe). So if humans are supposed to use iron (and I would think they are, as they have several alloy reactions already), that should be a quick fix.

I've tested it, and it works, but as most entity changes, requires a world regen.

(0009532)
Footkerchief (manager)
2010-07-02 10:47

God, I've never understood why that kind of functionality is attached to STONE_PREF (and METAL_PREF?). Thanks for figuring that out.

(0013305)
Quietust (reporter)
2010-10-10 12:02
edited on: 2010-10-10 12:02

In fact, the only metals Human civilizations seem to have access to* are Bronze, Brass, Electrum, Fine Pewter, Trifle Pewter, Lay Pewter, Billon, Sterling Silver, Black Bronze, and Rose Gold, all of which are explicitly allowed via PERMITTED_REACTION.

Exactly how they can make those metals without having access to copper, tin, zinc, silver, gold, and lead is another question entirely...

(* determined by editing the entity raws to bring back the human Guild Representative and forming a trade agreement)

(0013306)
Q.T.Quazar (reporter)
2010-10-10 12:05

this bug continues in 31.16. seems like a relatively quick fix?

(0013895)
Toady One (administrator)
2010-11-15 14:29
edited on: 2010-11-15 14:29

Played with the tags a little for 0.31.18.

Issue History
Date Modified	Username	Field	Change
2010-04-08 12:23	anomaly	New Issue
2010-04-08 12:47	SirPenguin	Note Added: 0002127
2010-04-08 13:07	anomaly	Note Added: 0002133
2010-04-08 13:27	Footkerchief	Note Added: 0002143
2010-04-08 13:28	Footkerchief	Category	Dwarf Mode -- Items => Civilizations/Entities
2010-04-08 13:28	Footkerchief	Summary	human civs are forgeless => Human civs only produce bronze items, never copper/iron/silver
2010-04-08 13:28	Footkerchief	Issue Monitored: Footkerchief
2010-04-08 13:42	Kennel	Tag Attached: civilization
2010-04-08 13:42	Kennel	Tag Attached: metal
2010-04-09 20:10	Creidieki	Note Added: 0002497
2010-04-09 20:10	Creidieki	Tag Attached: raw file
2010-04-10 01:09	anomaly	Note Added: 0002529
2010-04-10 11:28	Footkerchief	Note Added: 0002617
2010-04-10 11:29	Footkerchief	Note Edited: 0002617	View Revisions
2010-04-10 14:06	anomaly	Note Added: 0002642
2010-04-26 17:16	Footkerchief	Summary	Human civs only produce bronze items, never copper/iron/silver => Human civs only produce bronze items, and as a result have no anvils
2010-07-02 08:42	Knight Otu	Note Added: 0009521
2010-07-02 10:47	Footkerchief	Note Added: 0009532
2010-07-02 10:47	Footkerchief	Summary	Human civs only produce bronze items, and as a result have no anvils => Human civs lack STONE_PREF, only produce bronze items, have no anvils
2010-07-02 10:47	Footkerchief	Sticky Issue	No => Yes
2010-10-10 12:02	Quietust	Note Added: 0013305
2010-10-10 12:02	Quietust	Note Edited: 0013305	View Revisions
2010-10-10 12:05	Q.T.Quazar	Note Added: 0013306
2010-10-10 14:27	Another	Issue Monitored: Another
2010-10-26 07:34	Malibu Stacey	Issue Monitored: Malibu Stacey
2010-11-15 13:22	Footkerchief	Issue Monitored: Toady One
2010-11-15 14:29	Toady One	Note Added: 0013895
2010-11-15 14:29	Toady One	Status	new => resolved
2010-11-15 14:29	Toady One	Fixed in Version	=> 0.31.18
2010-11-15 14:29	Toady One	Resolution	open => fixed
2010-11-15 14:29	Toady One	Assigned To	=> Toady One
2010-11-15 14:29	Toady One	Note Edited: 0013895	View Revisions
2010-11-16 13:42	Footkerchief	Category	Civilizations/Entities => Civilizations/Entities -- General
2010-11-17 10:08	Footkerchief	Sticky Issue	Yes => No
2010-11-17 17:30	Malibu Stacey	Issue End Monitor: Malibu Stacey
2010-11-18 11:46	Another	Issue End Monitor: Another
2011-02-17 08:33	Footkerchief	Relationship added	related to 0003958

Notes
(0002127) SirPenguin (reporter) 2010-04-08 12:47	By forge, do you mean anvil?

(0002133) anomaly (reporter) 2010-04-08 13:07	oh, duh. yeah an anvil.

(0002143) Footkerchief (manager) 2010-04-08 13:27	There are only three metals with the ITEMS_ANVIL tag: iron, steel, and adamantine. If you add the tag to bronze, you should be able to embark with an anvil. Humans only seem to use bronze, for some reason. That's the part of this report that seems to be a bug, so I'll retitle the report accordingly.

(0002497) Creidieki (reporter) 2010-04-09 20:10	The entity file for humans doesn't include a PERMITTED_REACTION tag for steel; then again, neither humans nor dwarfs have a PERMITTED_REACTION for iron. This behavior may be intentional.

(0002529) anomaly (reporter) 2010-04-10 01:09	They never were able to use steel, but disabling the use of iron puts them at approximately kobold technology levels.

(0002617) Footkerchief (manager) 2010-04-10 11:28 edited on: 2010-04-10 11:29	Wait, if you disable iron they can no longer use bronze? That ain't right. How are you disabling the use of iron anyway?

(0002642) anomaly (reporter) 2010-04-10 14:06	I don't really know what's going on with this anymore because I abandoned my human town due to the lack of being able to build a metalsmith's forge. All I know is that humans cannot embark with anvils and human caravans never carry them (they used to carry them in 40d). I consider this to be a bug. If toadyone wished to turn the human civilization into a primitive tribe-like civilization without the ability to use metalworking, then I suppose this is intentional.

(0009521) Knight Otu (manager) 2010-07-02 08:42	The reason humans don't use iron is that the human entity lacks STONE_PREF. As this ( http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=55680.msg1201042#msg1201042 [^] ) thread explains, STONE_PREF allows an entity to directly use ore metals (though I found that it's not quite complete - an entity that lacks material for weapons will use all metals, presumably as a failsafe). So if humans are supposed to use iron (and I would think they are, as they have several alloy reactions already), that should be a quick fix. I've tested it, and it works, but as most entity changes, requires a world regen.

(0009532) Footkerchief (manager) 2010-07-02 10:47	God, I've never understood why that kind of functionality is attached to STONE_PREF (and METAL_PREF?). Thanks for figuring that out.

(0013305) Quietust (reporter) 2010-10-10 12:02 edited on: 2010-10-10 12:02	In fact, the only metals Human civilizations seem to have access to* are Bronze, Brass, Electrum, Fine Pewter, Trifle Pewter, Lay Pewter, Billon, Sterling Silver, Black Bronze, and Rose Gold, all of which are explicitly allowed via PERMITTED_REACTION. Exactly how they can make those metals without having access to copper, tin, zinc, silver, gold, and lead is another question entirely... (* determined by editing the entity raws to bring back the human Guild Representative and forming a trade agreement)

(0013306) Q.T.Quazar (reporter) 2010-10-10 12:05	this bug continues in 31.16. seems like a relatively quick fix?

(0013895) Toady One (administrator) 2010-11-15 14:29 edited on: 2010-11-15 14:29	Played with the tags a little for 0.31.18.