0000545: NO dwarven caravans! - Dwarf Fortress Bug Tracker

(0001280)
Logical2u (manager)
2010-04-05 18:39

Not having this issue - in two forts I've had dwarven caravans.

Is there a Dwarven civ near you? Was it conquered by anyone? Is your depot accessible to wagons?

(0001289)
Footkerchief (manager)
2010-04-05 19:05

It does seem to take longer for them to arrive now. I'm not sure if that's deliberate or not.

(0001291)
garanis (reporter)
2010-04-05 19:07

The caravan arrival time does seem to vary a lot... Maybe they are getting stuck in the terrain off the local map?

(0001293)
RichardCorey (reporter)
2010-04-05 19:09

I've experienced the delay, as Footkerchief pointed out (I spent the whole of my first "Late Autumn" ready to back up my save and check my civ and post a bug report, and then my caravan came with a liaison with the title "Marksdwarf" which made me grin) but my guess is that your Dwarven Civ is extinct somehow. That happened very occasionally in 40d, too. Check for local civs.

(I haven't had any Humans or Elves yet in the one fort I've played. Sad Pandaman.)

(0001325)
Sinnyil (reporter)
2010-04-05 20:31

It should be noted that not every embark area can be reached by trade caravans. One of the tab options is something about trade, and you can see if the different civs have trade paths to you. I went through two forts with no trading before I figured that out.

(0001817)
Rochndil (reporter)
2010-04-07 12:05

I'd suspect my civ was extinct, but it still shows on the list. I got several initial waves of immigrants, and then they stopped too. My pop is at 30, with no changes in two years or more, other than reproduction. The site (initially) showed Dwarves as neighbors, and they STILL show on the civ list. I've been visited by the elves, hyoomans (with no wagons), goblins, and kobolds without trouble.

(0002896)
Rochndil (reporter)
2010-04-11 16:03

I've played three games so far, on both 01 and 02, and have yet to see a single caravan from the homeland. I get immigrant waves, maybe 3 or so, and then those stop as well. The only thing I can think of is that it may be related to playing in a SMALL region. It never caused problems before, but maybe that's the source of this bug.

(0002905)
Zas (reporter)
2010-04-11 17:00

I don't have this issue on my fortress. Do you embark in some particularly isolated region, like a glacier or some evil wilderness? How far id your site from the nearest dwarven settlement? Do you have large created wealth?

(0003042)
Rochndil (reporter)
2010-04-12 07:38

Various locations, some within spitting distance of a dwarven stronghold. ALL locations checked for civ access before embark. Wealth varies of course, but was decent (especially in the longer-running game). The pattern is the same in each case, a few waves of migrants, then nothing. No dwarven caravans, ever, up to year 6 or so (in the longest game I've played so far). The only unusual thing is that all games were played in SMALL regions. I'll try a "normal" world next time and see how it goes.

(0003431)
Dekar (reporter)
2010-04-14 02:08

I have the same issue in .03, late summer in my second year and not a single caravan.
3 migrant waves with the third not attracting anyone, so I'm still at 19 dwarves.

Civ screen shows a dwarven civ but with no noteable leader. There should also be humans on the world and with access to the fort.

I modded kobolds to a full civ and created a world where they have several sites near my fort location. Can they ambush the caravans?

(0003436)
Jimmy (reporter)
2010-04-14 03:14
edited on: 2010-04-14 03:14

I'd check legends if I were you. Sometimes your civ can be attacked right at the end of world gen, destroying all the historical figures. It's happened to me.

(0003807)
Manslay (reporter)
2010-04-15 23:21

I have the same situation as Dekar.
one or two migration waves, NO dwarven caravans for 6 years of playing already (have a dw civ in "c" screen)
Also, elven traders don't leave trade depot for some years long, cutting FPS by half :(

(0003814)
Langdon (reporter)
2010-04-16 00:53

This happened in my last .02 game, and I checked legends afterwards - my civ was wiped out in world gen. It seems the first one or two migrant waves are hardcoded to arrive regardless of the trade level or presence of a mountainhome, but no more migrant waves arrived after the first year.

(0003834)
Dekar (reporter)
2010-04-16 05:50

In legends, my civ only has a history until the year 14, then comes a large gap in the history until 1051 when my fort was founded. :/

(0004772)
Kumquat (reporter)
2010-04-23 14:25

I had this happen as well, autumn came and went with no dwarf caravan.

I then checked the legends in a backup copy of the world and noticed that my home civ was actually smashed at year 38 by a titan: the only dwarf civ in a SMALLER_REGION type world.

Supposedly worldgen should have rejected the world at that point.

(0004887)
Knight Otu (manager)
2010-04-24 09:30

Worldgen only rejects worlds when it can't place a playable civilization - extinctions, it doesn't care about. However, the game should probably be better about warning you if you try to embark for a destroyed civilization.

(0004902)
DoctorZuber (reporter)
2010-04-24 11:26

Humm... I had a fort I abandoned because it became clear to me that I was never going to get a trader. I didn't think about it too much at the time, but I did have the one dwarven civilization on the list so I should have been getting dwarven caravans, but I wasn't.

(0005050)
Kumquat (reporter)
2010-04-25 16:11

I have now had this happen a few times - happens more often in small/smaller regions. Every time the home civ has been nuked either by goblins or brutes/megabeasts - the latter more often in small maps. Easiest and probably surest way to check if it happened is to check historical maps in legends and see if the home civ has any area/influence at the last year. That has been 100% sure way for me.

(0005555)
Traveller (reporter)
2010-04-28 11:19

Just had this happen to me. Dwarven cities showed up on the map, but they turned out to be empty--you can check whether this is going to happen ahead of time by firing up adventurer mode and seeing if you can play as a dwarf.

(0006156)
Jerkwhistle (reporter)
2010-05-05 02:06

I've generated a few worlds with the above problem, and had nearly five in a row when I had turned up the number of mountain caves in the worldgen parameters. I've since turned that variable down to below default and have not had a single world with an unplayable dwarven civ. It could have simply been the luck of the draw, but it might be worth testing.

(0017474)
Kogut (reporter)
2011-04-23 03:41
edited on: 2011-04-23 03:41

save? In .25 dead civs will send you caravans.

(0020714)
Rochndil (reporter)
2012-02-26 06:20

As of .34-02 this seems to be fixed, I've seen numerous caravans arrive successfully.

(0020715)
Xotano (reporter)
2012-02-26 06:23

i don't think this is really a glitch as much as it is some civs cant reach certain areas and therefore wont be able to trade with you.

Issue History
Date Modified	Username	Field	Change
2010-04-05 18:37	Rochndil	New Issue
2010-04-05 18:39	Logical2u	Note Added: 0001280
2010-04-05 19:05	Footkerchief	Note Added: 0001289
2010-04-05 19:07	garanis	Note Added: 0001291
2010-04-05 19:09	RichardCorey	Note Added: 0001293
2010-04-05 20:31	Sinnyil	Note Added: 0001325
2010-04-07 12:05	Rochndil	Note Added: 0001817
2010-04-11 16:03	Rochndil	Note Added: 0002896
2010-04-11 17:00	Zas	Note Added: 0002905
2010-04-12 07:38	Rochndil	Note Added: 0003042
2010-04-14 02:08	Dekar	Note Added: 0003431
2010-04-14 02:09	Dekar	Issue Monitored: Dekar
2010-04-14 03:14	Jimmy	Note Added: 0003436
2010-04-14 03:14	Jimmy	Note Edited: 0003436	View Revisions
2010-04-15 23:21	Manslay	Note Added: 0003807
2010-04-15 23:57	jgoodwin	Issue Monitored: jgoodwin
2010-04-16 00:53	Langdon	Note Added: 0003814
2010-04-16 05:50	Dekar	Note Added: 0003834
2010-04-23 14:25	Kumquat	Note Added: 0004772
2010-04-23 14:40	Kennel	Tag Attached: caravan
2010-04-23 14:40	Kennel	Tag Attached: trade
2010-04-24 09:30	Knight Otu	Note Added: 0004887
2010-04-24 11:26	DoctorZuber	Note Added: 0004902
2010-04-25 16:11	Kumquat	Note Added: 0005050
2010-04-26 11:03	Footkerchief	Relationship added	related to 0000197
2010-04-28 11:19	Traveller	Note Added: 0005555
2010-05-01 13:30	Footkerchief	Relationship added	parent of 0001662
2010-05-05 00:36	Footkerchief	Relationship replaced	related to 0001662
2010-05-05 02:06	Jerkwhistle	Note Added: 0006156
2010-07-30 06:49	Dawkins	Issue Monitored: Dawkins
2011-04-23 03:41	Kogut	Note Added: 0017474
2011-04-23 03:41	Kogut	Note Edited: 0017474	View Revisions
2012-02-26 06:20	Rochndil	Note Added: 0020714
2012-02-26 06:23	Xotano	Note Added: 0020715
2012-02-26 07:35	Footkerchief	Status	new => resolved
2012-02-26 07:35	Footkerchief	Resolution	open => unable to reproduce
2012-02-26 07:35	Footkerchief	Assigned To	=> Footkerchief
2012-09-11 20:56	Footkerchief	Relationship added	related to 0006184

Notes
(0001280) Logical2u (manager) 2010-04-05 18:39	Not having this issue - in two forts I've had dwarven caravans. Is there a Dwarven civ near you? Was it conquered by anyone? Is your depot accessible to wagons?

(0001289) Footkerchief (manager) 2010-04-05 19:05	It does seem to take longer for them to arrive now. I'm not sure if that's deliberate or not.

(0001291) garanis (reporter) 2010-04-05 19:07	The caravan arrival time does seem to vary a lot... Maybe they are getting stuck in the terrain off the local map?

(0001293) RichardCorey (reporter) 2010-04-05 19:09	I've experienced the delay, as Footkerchief pointed out (I spent the whole of my first "Late Autumn" ready to back up my save and check my civ and post a bug report, and then my caravan came with a liaison with the title "Marksdwarf" which made me grin) but my guess is that your Dwarven Civ is extinct somehow. That happened very occasionally in 40d, too. Check for local civs. (I haven't had any Humans or Elves yet in the one fort I've played. Sad Pandaman.)

(0001325) Sinnyil (reporter) 2010-04-05 20:31	It should be noted that not every embark area can be reached by trade caravans. One of the tab options is something about trade, and you can see if the different civs have trade paths to you. I went through two forts with no trading before I figured that out.

(0001817) Rochndil (reporter) 2010-04-07 12:05	I'd suspect my civ was extinct, but it still shows on the list. I got several initial waves of immigrants, and then they stopped too. My pop is at 30, with no changes in two years or more, other than reproduction. The site (initially) showed Dwarves as neighbors, and they STILL show on the civ list. I've been visited by the elves, hyoomans (with no wagons), goblins, and kobolds without trouble.

(0002896) Rochndil (reporter) 2010-04-11 16:03	I've played three games so far, on both 01 and 02, and have yet to see a single caravan from the homeland. I get immigrant waves, maybe 3 or so, and then those stop as well. The only thing I can think of is that it may be related to playing in a SMALL region. It never caused problems before, but maybe that's the source of this bug.

(0002905) Zas (reporter) 2010-04-11 17:00	I don't have this issue on my fortress. Do you embark in some particularly isolated region, like a glacier or some evil wilderness? How far id your site from the nearest dwarven settlement? Do you have large created wealth?

(0003042) Rochndil (reporter) 2010-04-12 07:38	Various locations, some within spitting distance of a dwarven stronghold. ALL locations checked for civ access before embark. Wealth varies of course, but was decent (especially in the longer-running game). The pattern is the same in each case, a few waves of migrants, then nothing. No dwarven caravans, ever, up to year 6 or so (in the longest game I've played so far). The only unusual thing is that all games were played in SMALL regions. I'll try a "normal" world next time and see how it goes.

(0003431) Dekar (reporter) 2010-04-14 02:08	I have the same issue in .03, late summer in my second year and not a single caravan. 3 migrant waves with the third not attracting anyone, so I'm still at 19 dwarves. Civ screen shows a dwarven civ but with no noteable leader. There should also be humans on the world and with access to the fort. I modded kobolds to a full civ and created a world where they have several sites near my fort location. Can they ambush the caravans?

(0003436) Jimmy (reporter) 2010-04-14 03:14 edited on: 2010-04-14 03:14	I'd check legends if I were you. Sometimes your civ can be attacked right at the end of world gen, destroying all the historical figures. It's happened to me.

(0003807) Manslay (reporter) 2010-04-15 23:21	I have the same situation as Dekar. one or two migration waves, NO dwarven caravans for 6 years of playing already (have a dw civ in "c" screen) Also, elven traders don't leave trade depot for some years long, cutting FPS by half :(

(0003814) Langdon (reporter) 2010-04-16 00:53	This happened in my last .02 game, and I checked legends afterwards - my civ was wiped out in world gen. It seems the first one or two migrant waves are hardcoded to arrive regardless of the trade level or presence of a mountainhome, but no more migrant waves arrived after the first year.

(0003834) Dekar (reporter) 2010-04-16 05:50	In legends, my civ only has a history until the year 14, then comes a large gap in the history until 1051 when my fort was founded. :/

(0004772) Kumquat (reporter) 2010-04-23 14:25	I had this happen as well, autumn came and went with no dwarf caravan. I then checked the legends in a backup copy of the world and noticed that my home civ was actually smashed at year 38 by a titan: the only dwarf civ in a SMALLER_REGION type world. Supposedly worldgen should have rejected the world at that point.

(0004887) Knight Otu (manager) 2010-04-24 09:30	Worldgen only rejects worlds when it can't place a playable civilization - extinctions, it doesn't care about. However, the game should probably be better about warning you if you try to embark for a destroyed civilization.

(0004902) DoctorZuber (reporter) 2010-04-24 11:26	Humm... I had a fort I abandoned because it became clear to me that I was never going to get a trader. I didn't think about it too much at the time, but I did have the one dwarven civilization on the list so I should have been getting dwarven caravans, but I wasn't.

(0005050) Kumquat (reporter) 2010-04-25 16:11	I have now had this happen a few times - happens more often in small/smaller regions. Every time the home civ has been nuked either by goblins or brutes/megabeasts - the latter more often in small maps. Easiest and probably surest way to check if it happened is to check historical maps in legends and see if the home civ has any area/influence at the last year. That has been 100% sure way for me.

(0005555) Traveller (reporter) 2010-04-28 11:19	Just had this happen to me. Dwarven cities showed up on the map, but they turned out to be empty--you can check whether this is going to happen ahead of time by firing up adventurer mode and seeing if you can play as a dwarf.

(0006156) Jerkwhistle (reporter) 2010-05-05 02:06	I've generated a few worlds with the above problem, and had nearly five in a row when I had turned up the number of mountain caves in the worldgen parameters. I've since turned that variable down to below default and have not had a single world with an unplayable dwarven civ. It could have simply been the luck of the draw, but it might be worth testing.

(0017474) Kogut (reporter) 2011-04-23 03:41 edited on: 2011-04-23 03:41	save? In .25 dead civs will send you caravans.

(0020714) Rochndil (reporter) 2012-02-26 06:20	As of .34-02 this seems to be fixed, I've seen numerous caravans arrive successfully.

(0020715) Xotano (reporter) 2012-02-26 06:23	i don't think this is really a glitch as much as it is some civs cant reach certain areas and therefore wont be able to trade with you.