0001127: Worldgen without caverns does not allow embark with seeds/alcohol

Notes
(0003417) GRead (reporter) 2010-04-13 23:47	The additional information segment there looks more like a suggestion than a bug report. You may want to consider posting it to the suggestions forum, assuming it hasn't already been suggested. It looks like a good one that fits well with the procedurally generated nature of DF. As for the bug report itself, I'm not sure if this is working as intended or not. On the one hand, dwarfs should always be able to embark with food, booze and seeds, for simple playability's sake. On the other hand, Civs only have access to resources that are located within their boundaries. Turning off caverns leaves dwarven civs without access to underground plants, so it is 'working as designed' that they should not have access to them or their products, but probably not working as intended.

(0003419) Tenyn42 (reporter) 2010-04-14 00:01	On a related note, further testing indicates that I can generate worlds with some (apparently random) underground plant types not available, just by altering the values of cavern openness and passage density slightly. To create a world with no plump helmets, take the above worldgen parameters and make the following changes: [SEED:1929593645] [HISTORY_SEED:3706604371] [NAME_SEED:1942682520] [CREATURE_SEED:193381517] ... [CAVERN_LAYER_COUNT:1] [CAVERN_LAYER_OPENNESS_MIN:60] [CAVERN_LAYER_OPENNESS_MAX:100] [CAVERN_LAYER_PASSAGE_DENSITY_MIN:0] [CAVERN_LAYER_PASSAGE_DENSITY_MAX:20] To create a world without sweet pods: [SEED:630658727] [HISTORY_SEED:2957172350] [NAME_SEED:649942673] [CREATURE_SEED:2493631520] ... [CAVERN_LAYER_COUNT:1] [CAVERN_LAYER_OPENNESS_MIN:60] [CAVERN_LAYER_OPENNESS_MAX:100] [CAVERN_LAYER_PASSAGE_DENSITY_MIN:70] [CAVERN_LAYER_PASSAGE_DENSITY_MAX:80] I include the seeds because one of them must determine which plants get discovered by the civilization.

(0003948) Cryten (reporter) 2010-04-16 23:40	I suspect this has to do with the cause of 0000017 . It seems theres alot of options disapering when custom embarks are created.

(0012835) LurkersA (reporter) 2010-09-20 03:28	I have also come across this bug. If this is intentional, would it be do-able to have a pop-up on world gen, warning that no underground plants will be available if cavern count is zero? Similar to how the aquifer warning pops up before embark? If this isn't intentional, well, ignore me.

(0018499) Tehsapper (reporter) 2011-08-13 10:40	I have encountered that "bug" too. I don't think it's a bug, because these plants are underground, which means there should be some caves in start of world's generation or else there is no place for them to spawn and grow. And so if there is no caves, then there is no underground plants exist. And so no dwarf booze for you. And I agree, the game should inform the player of non-existing underground plants then.

(0036777) FantasticDorf (reporter) 2017-10-11 09:37	Dwarves are reliant on foraging (it is actually unknown what quantity or if they are growing plants successfully themselves)underground plants in order to produce the products to import to you. Like numerous people above have said, without these plants or if access is denied to a means of foraging for them, they can't sell them you or embark with them. Ratios of herbalistically harvested to farm-grown plants is unknown. If this was a dwarf only world, you would likely be greeted with a message explained in this report 0006281 complaining of being unable to assign farmers to crops and looping world generation upon deleting all the underground plants and stripping them of their [OUTDOOR_GARDEN] plants

Issue History
Date Modified	Username	Field	Change
2010-04-13 22:59	Tenyn42	New Issue
2010-04-13 23:32	Tenyn42	Issue Monitored: Tenyn42
2010-04-13 23:47	GRead	Note Added: 0003417
2010-04-14 00:01	Tenyn42	Note Added: 0003419
2010-04-16 08:54	Footkerchief	Relationship added	has duplicate 0001233
2010-04-16 23:37	Khym Chanur	Issue Monitored: Khym Chanur
2010-04-16 23:40	Cryten	Note Added: 0003948
2010-04-17 00:08	Cryten	Issue Monitored: Cryten
2010-04-18 03:29	Cryten	Issue End Monitor: Cryten
2010-04-18 18:22	Footkerchief	Relationship added	parent of 0001311
2010-04-23 00:10	Footkerchief	Relationship added	related to 0001449
2010-04-26 17:41	Footkerchief	Tag Attached: Intentional?
2010-04-28 11:39	Logical2u	Relationship added	has duplicate 0001611
2010-06-24 06:01	Footkerchief	Relationship added	has duplicate 0002457
2010-07-12 12:03	Footkerchief	Tag Renamed	Intentional? => Intentional/Expected?
2010-09-20 03:28	LurkersA	Note Added: 0012835
2011-08-12 20:45	deathc4	Issue Monitored: deathc4
2011-08-13 10:40	Tehsapper	Note Added: 0018499
2012-01-19 10:23	Footkerchief	Relationship replaced	related to 0001311
2012-01-19 10:23	Footkerchief	Relationship added	related to 0004005
2012-02-20 00:10	Kogut	Tag Attached: world without caverns
2012-02-20 08:18	Footkerchief	Relationship added	related to 0004592
2012-02-20 08:18	Footkerchief	Relationship added	related to 0004924
2012-02-23 19:00	Footkerchief	Relationship added	related to 0001553
2012-02-23 19:00	Footkerchief	Relationship added	related to 0003958
2012-03-28 08:00	Footkerchief	Relationship replaced	has duplicate 0004005
2012-03-28 08:00	Footkerchief	Issue Monitored: DoctorZuber
2012-03-28 08:00	Footkerchief	Issue Monitored: Hieronymous Alloy
2012-03-28 08:00	Footkerchief	Issue Monitored: Inglonias
2017-10-11 09:37	FantasticDorf	Note Added: 0036777
2018-04-13 12:09	Huntthetroll	Issue Monitored: Huntthetroll